For a man who “60 Minutes” says is currently living in an “undisclosed location,” Ray Epps seems very comfortable in front of the camera. But then again, nothing about Ray Epps adds up.

“60 Minutes” aired an interview with Ray Epps on Sunday night, which answered no questions about who Epps is or what he was doing at the Capitol on January 6th. In fact, “60 Minutes” seems much more eager to inform their handful of viewers that everything they think they know about Ray Epps is wrong. The problem is, there are no explanations for what is right. If you believe “60 Minutes,” then Epps is simply some dumb right-wing schmuck who was a MAGA-hat-wearing Donald Trump devotee, who had a swift change of heart when the crowd he had exhorted the night before suddenly took his words too literally, and after explaining the whole thing to the FBI, he walked away from it all… only to be “scapegoated” by right-wing media.

As you watch these clips, remember that Ray Epps and his wife, Robyn, have sold their home and are living in an RV because they are in hiding. Robyn Epps even says at one point that sometimes she uses her maiden name. Um, then why are you both putting your faces on TV for everyone to see?

After former President Trump mentioned Epps at a rally, Epps says harassment and death threats against him picked up. Epps and his wife sold their home and are now living in hiding. https://t.co/JsmCHDR6TO pic.twitter.com/hVTbbynS7K

— 60 Minutes (@60Minutes) April 23, 2023

But let’s get back to what Epps says he was doing on January 5th and 6th.

Epps went to Washington with his 36-year-old son and almost immediately stepped into trouble. The conspiracy theory starts here – the night of January 5th.”

Ray Epps (on Jan. 5): Give me one minute! Give me one minute!”

On the streets of D.C. tensions were running high at a pro-Trump rally being live streamed on the internet. The Marine veteran tried to take charge…”

Ray Epps (on Jan. 5): I’m gonna put it out there I’m probably gonna go to jail for this. Tomorrow, we need to go into the Capitol! Into the Capitol! [What?!] Peacefully! [Fed Fed Fed! Fed!]”

To some in the crowd, Epps seemed so over the top, he must have been a government agent – a fed – sent to entrap them.”

Bill Whitaker: When you said, “We have to go into the Capitol, we have to go into the Capitol.” What were you thinking?”

Ray Epps: I said some stupid things. My thought process, we surround the Capitol, we get all the people there. I mean, I had I had problems with the election. It was my duty as an American to peacefully protest, along with anybody else that wanted to.”

The next morning, January 6th, Epps was out by the Washington Monument… still focused on a single goal.”

Ray Epps (on Jan. 6): We are going to the Capitol, where our problems are. It’s that direction!”

President Trump (on Jan. 6): We’re going to walk down to the Capitol.”

While President Trump was still speaking at the Ellipse, Ray Epps walked toward the Capitol. He told us he wanted to be up front to help keep the peace. What happened next at Peace Circle where protesters first overran police is seen as a smoking gun. Epps pulled this agitated rioter aside and said something — conspiracists say he was giving marching orders, because seconds later, this happened… the first Capitol police officer goes down.”

Bill Whitaker: As closely as you can remember, what exactly did you say to him?”

Ray Epps: “Dude, we’re not here for that. The police aren’t the enemy,” or somethin’ like that.”

“I’m probably gonna go to jail for this. Tomorrow, we need to go into the Capitol!” Ray Epps, a Marine veteran, yelled to a crowd the night before the Jan. 6 protest. Some thought Epps was an FBI plant sent to entrap them, which he and the FBI deny. https://t.co/mkeGkbysOY pic.twitter.com/iT9Z6djMzZ

— 60 Minutes (@60Minutes) April 23, 2023

Bill Whitaker: I think what is so damning about the video is that there’s a barrier there. The barrier gets knocked down. And a police officer, a female police officer gets knocked down. And the mob, including you, walk over the barrier and march on toward the capitol.”

Bill Whitaker: Why didn’t you stop to help this, this police officer who was knocked over?”

Ray Epps: When she was knocked down and I started to go towards her to help her up. And I saw a billy club over here in the corner of my eye. And I thought, “You know, they’re gonna think I’m part of this.” So I backed off.”

Bill Whitaker: You were part of it.”

Ray Epps: I was there. I wasn’t a part of that, knocking her down.”

Robyn Epps: And he wasn’t part of the violence. There’s a big difference there.”

Bill Whitaker: Is that you there?”

Ray Epps was never seen committing an act of violence that day, or entering the Capitol. Epps told us when he saw the violence … his fervor to enter the building became a desire to play peacemaker.”

Ray Epps was front and center at the first breach of Capitol grounds on January 6. He says he was trying to calm rioters down and keep the peace. But a far-right conspiracy casts him as a deep-state operative giving orders to initiate the attack. https://t.co/itKnHXXHtj pic.twitter.com/eZcMiPPCO7

— 60 Minutes (@60Minutes) April 23, 2023

And his explanation for saying he “orchestrated” things?

Jan. 6 protester Ray Epps says during the insurrection he tried to keep the peace. Epps says he regrets sending a text to a relative that he “orchestrated it.” He claims he was “boasting to my nephew” and meant he was “directing people to the Capitol.” https://t.co/7Vl0KbiNWV pic.twitter.com/Vu2sc3cEG3

— 60 Minutes (@60Minutes) April 23, 2023

He told us that’s when he sent this text to his nephew. Conspiracists saw it as the true confession of an agent provocateur.”

Bill Whitaker: “I was in front with a few others. I also orchestrated it.” Explain this to me.”

Ray Epps: I was boasting to my nephew. I helped get people there. I was directing people to the Capitol that morning.”

Bill Whitaker: You know how this sounds?”

Ray Epps: I know exactly how it sounds. I’ve been scolded by my wife for using that word. I shouldn’t have used that word.”

Bill Whitaker: When you add up all of these things, as your critics have done, you’ve given them a lot of ammunition to paint you as this instigator.”

Ray Epps: There was an effort to make me a scapegoat.”

And to back up the “scapegoat” assertion, “60 Minutes” drags in a January 6th Committee researcher. What, was Adam Kinzinger or Liz Cheney not available? They had to go with this guy that no one’s ever heard to to bolster Epps’s defense?

Tom Joscelyn is a researcher and author, one of the country’s top terrorism experts … tapped by the January 6th Committee to help write its final report, which found evidence far-right extremists like the Proud Boys planned and executed the breach of the Capitol. He says the committee interviewed Epps – and found he wasn’t important enough to put in the report.”

Tom Joscelyn: I wouldn’t defend Ray Epps or anybody else who was on the Capitol grounds that day. I would just defend the facts. So the idea that he’s leading the charge or really orchestrating it is just contradicted by this mountain range of evidence. And that’s what the conspiracy theorists want you to, want you to do, right? They don’t want you to look at this mountain range of evidence. They want you to turn around and focus on this pebble on the ground named Ray Epps. They also don’t want you to look at what President Trump was saying and doing.”

He calls Epps’ behavior baffling, but not evidence of a conspiracy.”

Here is the real question. Lots of people were arrested for what they did or said on January 6th. Why was Ray Epps never arrested? Why was he never charged with anything? So many people have been arrested, have been sitting in jail, and have been prosecuted for a whole host of things. Is the excuse truly that Epps walked up to that proverbial red line, and didn’t cross it? Donald Trump was impeached by the House of Representatives for telling people to do LESS than what Epps said. And Epps said the night before that he might go to jail for saying that the crowd needed to go “into the Capitol.” So… why didn’t he?

“60 Minutes” says that the FBI finally commented that Epps was “never” one of their sources or employees.

Of course he doesn't work for the FBI.

There are multiple intelligence agencies.

— Based Social Work (@BasedSocialWerk) April 24, 2023

No one is willing to answer the question of why Epps, out of so many people in the front of the crowd that day, managed to walk away with zero legal consequences. Epps gives no explanations for it, either, only that he contacted the FBI when they wanted to find him, and that he willingly spilled his guts to them. Was that enough to give the FBI the goods on other people, and let Epps walk away? And where is Epps’s adult son in all of this? Was he with his father during everything, or not? After how we have seen the Justice Department be weaponized against American citizens, I find it hard to believe that Epps was able to just tell his side of the story, with all the video evidence available, and not be arrested or charged. But apparently that is a conspiracy theory not worthy of the media’s consideration, to ask what Ray Epps may have said or given to the FBI after the fact to keep himself out of jail. Nothing adds up, and so no one will be satisfied with this interview.

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Featured image: composite photo of Capitol Building via Elliott P. on Flickr, cropped, Attribution-ShareAlike 2.0 Generic (CC BY-SA 2.0) and Ray Epps via screenshot of CBS “60 Minutes” interview video