In the wake of the shooting of nine AME church parishioners in Charleston, South Carolina, by a racist who shall remain nameless in this post, the question has arisen once again: shall South Carolina remove the Confederate battle flag that flies on the State House grounds in Columbia?
On Saturday, former presidential candidate Mitt Romney made his views known on Twitter:
Take down the #ConfederateFlag at the SC Capitol. To many, it is a symbol of racial hatred. Remove it now to honor #Charleston victims.
— Mitt Romney (@MittRomney) June 20, 2015
Presidential candidate Jeb Bush weighed in later in the day on Twitter and Facebook:
My position on how to address the Confederate flag is clear. In Florida, we acted, moving the flag from the state grounds to a museum where it belonged. This is obviously a very sensitive time in South Carolina and our prayers are with the families, the AME church community and the entire state. Following a period of mourning, there will rightly be a discussion among leaders in the state about how South Carolina should move forward and I’m confident they will do the right thing.
South Carolina Senator and Presidential candidate Lindsey Graham supported the flag.
And on Saturday evening, a #TakeItDown rally was held at the State House in Columbia to protest the presence of the flag.
Another look at the #TakeItDown rally in Columbia, SC. Around 2,000 here, I'd say. pic.twitter.com/OFPxRK3QlW
— Colin Daileda (@ColinDaileda) June 20, 2015
My take on the embattled battle flag?
First of all, I am no Southerner. I grew up in a small town in northwest Indiana in the shadow of Chicago and the great swath of industrial cities situated on the Hoosier tip of Lake Michigan. My father’s family hailed from Pennsylvania, my mother’s parents were German immigrants. I have no claim to any Southern heritage; heck, I don’t even like sweet tea.
However, I have visited Charleston several times in the past ten years. My daughter and her husband have lived there twice, courtesy of the US Navy. In 2012, my grandson was born in Charleston.
I have found Charleston to be a charming city, rich in Revolutionary War history, exquisite colonial architecture, and terrific seafood. I have been enchanted by the Southern culture there. When I heard of the shooting and realized it was at one of those grand old churches in the downtown area, it saddened me to think of such horror visiting this stately old Southern city.
So as a Northern girl who has spent some time in Charleston, in the light of the shooting I have come to my conclusions about the presence of the Confederate flag on the State House grounds:
Russell Moore, President of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention, and himself a native Mississippian, also wants to see the flag come down. He wrote:
The Apostle Paul says that we should not prize our freedom to the point of destroying those for whom Christ died. We should instead “pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding” (Rom. 14:19). The Confederate Battle Flag may mean many things, but with those things it represents a defiance against abolition and against civil rights. The symbol was used to enslave the little brothers and sisters of Jesus, to bomb little girls in church buildings, to terrorize preachers of the gospel and their families with burning crosses on front lawns by night.
Conservative writer and Louisiana native Rod Dreher advocated for the removal of the flag in The American Conservative:
The widespread use of the Confederate battle flag during the Civil Rights era, to defend white supremacy, removed the benefit of the doubt that might have been extended to those displaying the flag in memory of the war dead. In other words, modern white supremacists robbed the flag, as a symbol, of a plausible claim of innocence. . . . In light of what just happened in Charleston, and considering things from the point of view of black Southerners, I believe that the Confederate battle flag is simply too tainted as a symbol to be displayed in good conscience anymore.
Philip Klein, writing in the conservative Washington Examiner, puts forth this interesting view:
The invocation of “states rights” among those waving the Confederate flag while fighting for the evils of slavery and segregation has been devastating to the cause of limited government.
Not only were the institutions themselves an affront to liberty, but in fighting to defeat the institutions, the federal government claimed more power. And to this day, when any conservative tries to make a principled argument in favor of returning more power to the states, they have to grapple with the fact that for many Americans, such arguments are tainted by their historical association with slavery and segregation.
The Confederacy was formed to preserve and expand the brutal institution of slavery, and then its proponents subsequently tried to disguise their motivations in lofty language about states’ rights.
Finally, here is conservative black commentator and videographer Alfonzo Rachel, speaking about his opposition to conservative Republicans wrapping themselves (literally) in the Confederate flag:
It is not easy to face uncomfortable facts about a heritage in which one derives much pride. I may not be Southern, but I have experienced that disquietude as well.
I am a lifelong Lutheran, growing up in a staunchly Lutheran family and attending the parochial school of my childhood congregation. My mother in particular emphasized pride in that religious heritage brought to America by her German parents.
As I got older, I discovered that Martin Luther made some very anti-Semitic remarks, and the knowledge of this was very disconcerting. I honored Luther as a hero, and then I saw how hateful he could be!
I have heard these remarks excused. Anti-Semitism was rampant in Europe at the time. A leader of a Bible study class I attended once excused Luther as merely disappointed that the Jews did not embrace the Reformation after Catholic corruption was exposed. Yale historian and author Eric Metaxas even wrote in his biography Bonhoeffer — Pastor, Martyr, Prophet, Spy that the rantings were caused by Luther’s chronic digestive disorders.
My church body, however, has chosen not to excuse but to condemn Luther’s remarks. In part:
Resolved, That while, on the one hand, we are deeply indebted to Luther for his rediscovery and enunciation of the Gospel, on the other hand, we deplore and disassociate ourselves from Luther’s negative statements about the Jewish people, and, by the same token, we deplore the use today of such sentiments by Luther to incite anti-Christian and/or anti-Lutheran sentiment.
History can be ugly. Just as my church body has elected to publicly denounce its founder’s repulsive remarks about a group of people, it is my hope that the people of South Carolina decide to remove a symbol which has its own grisly history.
Well, to be fair, the Democrats aren’t all that happy with the Stars and Stripes, either.
Xavier says: People who are offended by the Confederate flag won’t stop being offended if it is removed – they will transfer their discontent to a new target. I was born and raised in the original capitol of the Confederacy, and that flag is a symbol of a bygone southern culture- not of racism or slavery. Any perceived racism exists only in the minds of the cult of perpetual victimhood.
Miss Inu says: I couldn’t agree more! I wasn’t raised in the Confederacy, but I’ve lived in SC for 20 years. Removing the CS Battle Flag from the Statehouse grounds won’t solve anything; it’ll only embolden those who hate everything about this country to push for even more change. I think the next thing will be to remove anything memorializing “old dead white men” from pre-1865; I’m surprised Washington & Lee University hasn’t been forced to change its name, or that some kind of politically-correct changes haven’t been made to the Jefferson Memorial in D.C., but since Obamaggeddon isn’t over yet, there’s still time!
Rick Caird says: The SJW’s are never appeased, only victorious and on to the next great effort. This seems as good a place as any to stop them.
Kim Quade says: Please read my linked posts from Russell Moore and Rod Dreher — both native Southerners, I might add. They demonstrate how at the start of the civil rights movement in the 1960’s the battle flag was used to promote white supremacy. Alfonzo Rachel goes into detail as well in the embedded video.
Jenny North says: Kim, thanks for this post. I wanted to provide this link to show why the decision whatever it is, should be respectfully debated.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/420060/confederate-flag-should-stay-charleston-shooting-debate
I too am not southern. Growing up in California, I longed for some type of connection to history. This is one of the things I loved most now that I live in Charleston. So I always saw the flag as the rebel flag, and a symbol of standing up for independence. I know other people see the flag as representing oppression, and certainly many have used it with that intent.
I can understand that it is a painful reminder of subjugation, but I have an innate automatic revulsion when I hear the “battle cry” to remove the flag. I think it rests in the idea that removing the flag would be an admission that somehow it causes people to become racist. As a strong believer in free will and individual responsibility I will always reject that. I also believe that the history of the civil war needs to be told fairly and completely, which if we try to erase the flag from that memory we will lose part of our heritage both good and bad. We need both.
It is like how we take great pains to avoid lumping all German people as Nazis. The large majority of the Confederacy – for lack of a better term the blue collar Confederacy – did not fight so rich planters could get richer. There was valor in their fight and whatever we do with the flag, we must find a way to honor that. A lot of people who want to take down the flag also want to demean that history so that all people with a historical connection to the Civil War may never escape the taint of slavery (reparations?). They want that blame to be carried throughout time, so removing the flag is capitulation to that point of view.
The importance of the story of your family’s history is no more deeply held than in the South. Even though I call this place my home and never plan to leave, I realized that no matter what I do, I will never have full access to those roots. But I think I have a good understanding of the controversy over the flag. It is not because modern South Carolinians want to perpetuate racism, grow white supremacy, or publicly sneer at blacks through the flying of the flag. It truly is a fight between the painful reminder of subjugation v. the deeply held belief in honoring your family history. One may certainly outweigh the other, but in order to come to a resolution that does not create resentment and division, the debaters on both sides must honestly acknowledge the sincere and righteous beliefs on the other.
Kim Quade says: Thank you Jenny. Your thoughtful post in disagreement is much appreciated, especially when compared to knee-jerk pejorative comments I have seen at other websites, sadly made by conservatives.
Previously I held your views; however, after reading the articles I linked above, particularly the one written by Russell Moore, I have changed my stance on the flag.
I don’t think the flag should be forbidden, as Germany has done with the swastika. I just feel it should be removed from an official government building. And it should be removed only at the desires of the people of SC, not by the federal government, and certainly not by executive order by a over-reaching president.
Jenny North says: I am not so much in disagreement, just asking for people to respect sincerely held beliefs about other people’s history. Where I grew up the flag was only ever used by people to promote a “cool” rebellious image. As teenagers, that’s all anyone ever wants to do is rebel. They often don’t know what the hell they are doing (i.e., Che Guevara t-shirts are uber cool right?). I am aware that it means other things to many people, and I don’t even claim to have a dog in this fight. I just want to see each side’s position respected, and I don’t want to see the predicable response, once it is taken down – “that’s right all you G-D racists!” Because you know that’s exactly what the narrative will be. Because that’s what it is now. If you support the flag you are racist, end of discussion.
Will it solve anything? I don’t know, but I will say with certainty that the removal of the flag will always be held to mean that the South capitulated, it agreed it can never escape the cloud of racism, it agreed it is racist to its core, it is a defect that cannot be cured. And the righteous, virtuous left will never, ever be held to account for their hypocrisy, since they will have “won” the war on racism.
I am never going to let anyone say I am racist because I am conservative. I am the one against identity politics, and insofar as this flag controversy attacks my integrity as an honorable person, I will continue to recoil against that unfairness. If this fight were solely about whether this symbol is racist, well there is no argument to be made in favor of racism. But it is the critics of the flag who know best that that is not all it is about, it goes far beyond the idiotic idea that people as a whole want to return to slavery. It is about what’s next? What freedoms, when appropriated by the “wrong” sort of people will be curtailed?
Maybe the line of resistance does not have to drawn at the flying of this flag on state grounds (where it is associated with a memorial and not as representing the state), maybe the line is further down the road at a disagreement over some other symbol. But if I am labelled racist because I supported a respectful discussion of each point of view, then I would go so far as to resist its removal. I am not saying that this post and discussion does any such thing. It is wise and good to have this discussion.
In fact, I think it shows more strength of character to fly that stupid flag and to continue to act in accordance with my own beliefs about equality. Even if that flag means what they say it means, then I defy it! Flying that flag will not change who I am! And I say Charleston and the people of this state have absolutely defied and proven that the flying of this flag has not made us into a racist community even in the face of this most horrendous act of racism. If that flag had anything to do with it you would not have seen white people flooding to show solidarity with the victims of this crime.
Can I be respectful to other’s views and to how that flag makes them feel? Yes. Can I make room for those views to outweigh my own honorable feelings? Yes. Will I allow that respectful consideration on my part to be used against me and force me to kowtow to other despicable things that might be in their agenda? No I will not. Convince me that the motive to remove the flag is about nothing more than healing and unity and I will find a way to be supportive. As for now, I am very wary of being trampled on because my own sense of honor was used against me. When that point of view is sincerely acknowledged, then it will be time to move forward.
Kim Quade says: I just finished the article by David French, with whom I typically agree and whose work I have linked in previous posts here at VG. However, he focuses on the gallantry of the Old South and its soldiers, men who have long passed.
As a Christian, what most moved me into changing my view on the flag were the words of Russell Moore (full article linked in the post):
“The Apostle Paul says that we should not prize our freedom to the point of destroying those for whom Christ died. We should instead ”pursue what makes for peace and for mutual up building’ (Rom. 14:19).”
As a Christian, I find those words to be my guidepost in this debate.
Totally agree, Jenny. There’s good and bad parts of ALL of American history. We shouldn’t be so PC in our choices.
Most of the average Confederate soldiers were fighting for “states’ rights”…not unlike how people are feeling right now about the federal incursions into states’ rights these days. It’s sad that PC-ism and Liberal white guilty overreach are so loud right now, and using the tragedy in Charleston as a hammer.
Please, people, give it a rest! We certainly do not want to cause more hostilities and bad feelings right now. We don’t even know exactly what caused this man to act as he did….evidently, originally, he was going to shoot up a local college campus, but found that there were too many security guards there. Emotions are running high enough, let’s not add to the pile, please!
Appalled By The World says: I never understood why the Confederate flag wasn’t banned after the Civil War. But since it wasn’t, and it irks Lefties no end I think it should be left alone.
Chish says: I for one agree that the flag should issue be put up for a vote.
Although if the result is not taking it down the left will use the
tactic of Judge shopping until they find one to overturn the vote.
Conservatives have seen this time and time again. I reside in SC
and am very proud of Gov. Haley, Mayor Riley and all the residents
of Charleston for showing the class and unity that is vacant in liberal “utopias” like Baltimore, Ferguson etc. Honestly, you could blast the flag into deep space and some liberal somewhere would still be offended….
Fun Fact: The Confederate flag was put atop the SC statehouse by then Democrat Gov. Fritz Hollings, in the 60’s. I wonder if the media would ever report that item?
Kim Quade says: As a Kansan, I appreciate your Governor Haley. I’m also very impressed with the dignified way Charleston has handled this crisis.
I am aware that the flag was put atop the capital building in — I believe — 1962 or 1963. It was a deliberate “in-your-face” to the emerging civil rights movement and became a symbol of white supremacists, which is why I fell the flag has become too tainted. And Fritz Hollings’s party affiliation? Democrat. Zo’s video which I linked in the post has much to say about the connection between Democrats and the anti-civil rights movement.
Jenny North says: I love Zo. I wish his voice of reason was more well known among conservatives generally. Thanks for including him.
Kim Quade says: YW! 😉
Deserttrek says: NO . that is up to the people of South Carolina, nobody else. And lets make sure no arab flags fly, no mexican flags fly etc too, those are not needed.
Kim Quade says: Yes, it is up to the people of SC. I believe I stated that throughout the course of my post.
GWB says: I don’t support its removal, since it is now only flown on the grounds of the memorial.
Part of the problem (identified well by Jenny) is that all of this is a rehash of Reconstruction. The left has never been sated in its desire for the wholesale destruction of the South. If Lincoln had not been assassinated, Reconstruction would have been handled differently, and there probably would have been a much faster reconciliation. Unfortunately, those who desired to punish the South (above all other goals) had their way after Mr Lincoln’s death. The left continues their tactics today. This is just one step in forcing capitulation.
Yes, I resist the removal of the flag almost solely out of perverse contrarianism. The remaining reason is a refusal to let the history be rewritten.
I suggest a compromise: fly the Gadsden flag right next to it (technically off the memorial grounds).
Kim Quade says: My problem with this flag is less with its war history then with modern history.
It was resurrected in the 1960’s by segregationist Dixiecrats as their response to the civil rights movement. It was first flown directly atop the SC capital building when Fritz Hollings was governor. The legislature that approved was totally white. It was then embraced by white supremacists, people who despised the dream of Martin Luther King.
Certainly most who support the flag are not racists. But I agree with Rod Dreher in his linked article: recent history has tainted it as a symbol of discrimination.
GWB says: I would be much more inclined to ditch the flag, if we weren’t under assault by the forces of the left constantly. “The South” is a particularly favorite target for their “progress” and their “tolerance”.
I understand the renaissance of the flag was under the racist Democrats of the 60s (besides the pillowcase wearers who kept it around for almost a hundred years). I know and grieve that the war over States’ rights was triggered primarily by slavery.
But, I will push back almost anywhere if it irritates all the “right” people and causes them sleepless nights. When the leftists stop their assault on every aspect of my culture and my religion and every other aspect of freedom, then I will join you in tearing down the Confederate battle flag.
GWB says: BTW, Mitt, who wins in the balance between honoring 9 victims, and honoring 133,133 veterans?
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