Next post
UPDATE BELOW: Yes, donate. Evidently sending arms, ammo, drones and more is just one big huge donation program for Ukraine. And now we get to add cluster munitions bombs to the list of goodies.
The United States has decided to send cluster munitions to Ukraine to help its military push back Russian forces entrenched along the front lines.
The Biden administration is expected to announce on Friday that it will send thousands of them as part of a new military aid package worth $800 million, according to people familiar with the decision who were not authorized to discuss it publicly before the official announcement and spoke on condition of anonymity.
I tell you what, this donation program is working out very well for Zelensky these days. No sooner had he whined about the progress or lack thereof on the counteroffensive to CNN’s Erin Burnett, then suddenly sending cluster munitions over is totally fine.
Except there are problems with cluster munitions. Big ones. Damaging ones.
Picture a bomb that, when deployed, lets loose lots of little bomblets. Except there is ZERO control over where all those little guys land. Thus, if some stray off course and accidentally kill a farmer, land on a school or touch down near a hospital, there could be big problems.
Human Rights Watch (HRW) has warned the US against supplying Ukraine with cluster munitions which have been banned in more than 100 countries due to the severe risk they pose to civilian populations. pic.twitter.com/MHz1cESp3X
— Geopolitics.wiki (@GeopoliticsW) July 7, 2023
Let’s also discuss the “dud” issue.
Mr. Biden was persuaded, officials said, after the Pentagon argued that they would provide Ukraine with an “improved” version of the weapon that has a “dud rate” of roughly 2 percent of all rounds fired.
Russia, officials noted, has been using its cluster munitions in Ukraine for much of the war, with a dud rate of 40 percent or more, creating a far larger hazard. The Ukrainians have also used cluster munitions, though their stockpile is a fraction of Washington’s.
Many bomb experts say the dud rates of American cluster munitions are likely far higher than Pentagon estimates.
“If they land in water, soft ground like plowed fields and muddy areas, that can certainly impact the reliability, causing higher dud rates,” said Al Vosburgh, a retired Army colonel trained in bomb disposal who runs a humanitarian mine action nonprofit organization.
Given how the Biden Administration has continually ‘effed everything up, do YOU believe them when they say the “dud” issue with cluster bombs has been fixed? I didn’t think so.
Here’s something to think about. Remember all that military equipment, arms, and ammunition that the Biden Administration ditched in Afghanistan? How much of THAT could we use right now instead of Grandpa Joe continually draining our supplies to help out his little pal Zelensky?
That said, sending MORE munitions, especially cluster bombs that the majority of our allies refuse to use, over to Ukraine with zero oversight is a stupendously bad idea. Unless you are Lindsey Graham.
Good interview with President @ZelenskyyUa about the current situation and what tools Ukraine needs to be successful in liberating their country from the Russian invaders.
— Lindsey Graham (@LindseyGrahamSC) July 6, 2023
We should give Ukraine ATACMS, cluster munitions and the F-16s they need so they can win against Russia.…
Great. Let’s just send cluster munitions over because Zelensky whined about it. Cluster munitions that, if not used correctly, can harm civilians. Which is a war crime. But now, the U.S. is going to send them over because it will be strategically useful?
When and if the US makes the announcement, it would be one of several recent weapons donation decisions that the Biden administration has reversed this year.
In January, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin announced the US would send Ukraine 31 M1 Abrams tanks just six days after Pentagon spokesperson Sabrina Singh told reporters “it just doesn’t make sense to provide [M1s] to the Ukrainians at this moment” because they use gas-turbine engines that run on jet fuel.
Similarly, Biden in May approved a plan to train Ukrainian troops on F-16 fighter jets in a significant step toward Kyiv receiving the military aircraft after more than a year of pleading.
That’s about the fifth time I’ve read a news report on this latest and the word used is “donation.” Well, our tax dollars have now donated billions worth of military equipment, ammunition, support, and more. Where do I go to get my charitable receipts? Can I back date them to February 2022?
As to the concerns that the cluster munitions will have too many duds, there’s a solution for that.
American officials also say they will work with Ukraine to track where the weapons are being used to aid in the cleanup of unexploded munitions.
Don’t hold your breath on that promise.
It’s instructive to observe the Pentagon tap-dancing on this decision.
Yet it looks highly likely that the decision is imminent.
Here’s my problem with this. We abruptly leave Afghanistan after 22 years, while abandoning billions in military arms and equipment. But now we are fifteen months into the Ukraine/Russia war and we keep shoveling, excuse me “donating” to them?
For what? We’ve seen this play out before. Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan…and now Ukraine. How long will we do this? What does Ukraine have to do in return? Oh wait, are there any conditions on these donations?
That’s my problem with this. While I feel for the citizens of Ukraine, we are throwing military equipment, arms, and supplies to Ukraine in exchange for what?
UPDATE: Biden has approved sending cluster munitions to Ukraine. They found a loophole for him to use:
There is no waiver provision in the 1 percent limit Congress has placed on cluster munition dud rates, written into Defense Department appropriations for the last seven years. Biden would bypass it and Congress, according to a White House official, drawing down the munitions from existing defense stocks under a rarely used provision of the Foreign Assistance Act, which allows the president to provide aid, regardless of appropriations or arms export restrictions, as long as he determines that it is in the vital U.S. national security interest.
So now our military will be tasked with combing through inventory to send ‘the best ones’ to Ukraine. That will end well I’m sure.
Feature Photo Credit: Ukraine flag military via iStock, cropped and modified
Taylor says: Why is it that so many people on the Right have this Putin love fixation? Is it becasue the Biden’s were doing illegal buisness inthe Ukraine? Sending weapons to the Ukriane to defend themselves is a righteous thing to do.
Nina Bookout says: The use of cluster munitions is universally regarded as a war crime. Production of such has been prohibited by U.S. law. Therefore, the fact that this is even on the table for consideration is wrong on multiple levels.
Scott says: Nina,
I’ll respectfully disagree a little bit here. Much of this “war crime” process has been pushed by the same morons who pushed ridiculous Rules of engagement for out troops, knowing that it would result in major casualties among friendlies, because the enemy would not follow such rules ( see Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, et al…) These same people are the ones that pushed bans on .50cal machine guns being used against personell, a ban on flame throwers / napalm, and other effective weapons. Make no mistake, the people behind those initiatives are progressives, they know full well that totalitarian regimes will not abide by such rules, and once again, America will be placed at a disadvantage , by design, not accident.
All that being said, I agree completely that we need to stop sending our entire stockpiles of weapons as “donations” to Ukraine. You can bet that a large part of the reason this is being done is to ensure that “the big guy” continues to get his 10% (and that the Ukes remain silent on all the dirty dealings of the biden crime family)
GWB says: It is only a war crime under the newer progressive crap. It was never before the Princess Di era when we started this “War has to be neat and clean and not not destructive” bulls**t.
They’re effective weapons. Period.
GWB says: minus one “not”
Steven Willson says: I don’t see any love for Putin on the right. What I see is a distaste for supporting Zelensky, who is just as much a dictator as Putin. He just gets better press because he launders money for our ruling class.
GWB says: Except there is ZERO control over where all those little guys land.
OK, I’m throwing the bulls**t flag on this one. You’ve been listening to the UN and people like Princess Di too much.
Our cluster munitions are precisely built and lay out a fairly uniform pattern over a limited area. If one is ending up in a farmer’s field, that farmer’s field likely already has lots of other munitions in his field, which is right next to the battlefield.
My source for this? I called fires – both air and artillery – in the military. I was part of the fires cell and helped plan numerous fire missions. Please don’t take part in the left’s disparagement of these very useful munitions.
cluster munitions which have been banned in more than 100 countries
Of course, because the left hates for us to actually win wars. (And most of the countries which have banned them can’t even make decent ones or have no ability to deploy them accurately. Also, couldn’t fight their way out of a wet paper sack. I have no care at all for what lesser countries with crappy militaries ban or don’t.)
with a dud rate of 40 percent or more, creating a far larger hazard
Ummmm, if they’re duds, then they aren’t a danger. Unless you’re defining “dud” as a temporary condition.
If they land in water, soft ground like plowed fields and muddy areas, that can certainly impact the reliability, causing higher dud rates
If they’re supposed to go off immediately. Of course, this is true of all sorts of munitions – in non-perfect conditions they might not work properly. Are they seriously demanding we not use weapons that aren’t perfect, that don’t go kill precisely the one enemy soldier we want it to kill and never provide any collateral damage? Don’t even comment on military operations or munitions if that’s your mentality.
a retired Army colonel trained in bomb disposal who runs a humanitarian mine action nonprofit organization
That last half of the sentence clause shows that he is a LEFTIST. Never let a leftist tell you how you should prepare for or run a war.
do YOU believe them
No. But I believe the military which demonstrated the 2% rate about 30 years ago.
Remember all that military equipment, arms, and ammunition that the Biden Administration ditched in Afghanistan?
You mean all the stuff that we gave/sold to the Afghan gov’t long before the Taliban took over again? We wouldn’t have it to use, anyway, since we’d already given it to another country.
that the majority of our allies refuse to use
Boy, they sure do like us to use them, though. NATO ops always turned to our guys and asked if we could deploy some ATACMS or air-delivered cluster munitions when planning stuff. Virtue-signaling hypocrites.
We should give Ukraine ATACMS
Hell, no.
Don’t hold your breath on that promise.
Our operations centers actually track every dang one of these ever fired (they even do it in virtual exercises, then commit teams to clean up afterward). So, barring not getting info from Ukraine on where they were fired, yeah, it is likely to happen. (Assuming, of course, we have any input on things when this all ends. Or that it ends. We were doing a LOT of cleanup in Bosnia over all of their cluster munitions and minefields.)
we are throwing military equipment, arms, and supplies to Ukraine in exchange for what?
This is the real issue. What is the point of “shoveling” all of this their way? What is our national interest in keeping Ukraine free of the Russians?
Some say it’s keeping Putin on his back foot. OK. So why aren’t we doing this sort of thing with Communist China? It’s defending NATO. From whom?
I actually prefer the idea of giving arms and ammunition to them and letting them fight the war. It’s an arm’s length strategy. However, we should at least have built something like a Lend-Lease Act. But that wouldn’t have benefited Biden’s paymasters as much.
Cameron says: It’s a shame that our government won’t use that money to defend our borders from foreign invaders.
8 Comments