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is this really news? dede scozzafava is an off-the-chart rino. her values and policy leanings are completely liberal. but we knew this about her from the beginning. she has a long record of operating outside of the gop party platform on the state level. if she had won this election, she most likely would have either switched parties or voted much of the time with dems in the house of representatives. it’s no surprise at all that she’s coming out in support of the (d)’s candidate, bill owens.
what does annoy me is the republicans that supported the scozzafava bid in the first place like newt, michael steele and the nrcc. besides their sheer lack of a principled policy stance, being a loyal gop party soldier is what gave us john mccain and ultimately barack obama in the first place! they completely underestimated the feelings conservatives have in this country these days. and newt? a big disappointment. he is especially out of touch with the gop base. as rush says, we have some of the smartest dumb people on our side and this is why 56% of conservatives don’t even call themselves republican anymore.
is purging the party of the scozzafava-types such a bad thing? i think not. this whole incident simply shows the country what a liberal, er, ‘moderate’ republican looks like and its not pretty.
You’re absolutely right kate.
If anything good comes from these 3 elections it will be the clear message we are sending to Newt, Steele etc that were tired of loyalty to party in the face of policies that dont reflect our principles.
The momentum and message that comes from these three races (that we’ll more than likely win) cannot be wasted and should be used to drive a clear impression of what conservatives and the population in general want.
Both parties are having problems with everyone leaning a bit too far left using the ole dem strategy of using tax payer dollars to gain votes.
By all accounts the country is already beginning to see and believe that its going take good ole conservative polices to stop whats going on and reverse the damage.
These three elections are a clear message to policies like Obamas that the people dont want anymore.
The times are a changin.
David says: It’s a clear bell weather situation. Lots of hot air, double-talk & outright lying is finally getting the better of the chameleons who claim that they have the citizen’s best interests at heart – be they D or Rs. I hope that the voters in the 23rd vote from their American gut and put a non-Washington-awed, fellow fiscally conservative representative into office.
But wait a minute… David you were the one who said only recently:
“Though the party is far from perfect, at least the members of the Republican party are encouraged to EXPRESS their opinions and call a spade a spade when they see one. They aren’t blind, kooaid drinking lead-by-the-nose followers.”
It doesn’t sound like you all cared to hear Scozzafava’s opinion very much.
And, as far as Doug Hoffman having citizen’s best interests at heart, according to the Watertown Daily Times, Mr. Hoffman knows exactly squat about local transportation and economic issues. During an interview with the daily times, Mr. Hoffman became flustered and complained that he should have been submitted a list of questions before the interview. His performance, by most accounts was miserable.
Drink the kool-aid?
That’s what it sounds to me like y’all are doing! Dick Armey and Sweet Sister Sarah tell you that Hoffman’s your man and you all rally to the flag. Never mind that the guy is an empty suit. Never mind that he doesn’t even live in the district he hopes to represent. Dick said vote for him, and that’s good enough for you.
I think Hoffman will probably with the election. And, believe it or not, I think that works to the Democrats advantage.
David says: Dade, the Republican membership IS encouraged to express their opinions and call a spade a SPADE – in other words TRUE talk about TRUE things. I LOVED hearing Scozzafava’s opinion – it completely laid out her interests and the things for which she advocates. Things that MOST who decide to align themselves with the Republican party do not want to VOTE for. Hearing her opinion is one thing, and fine; VOTING for her opinion/positions is a WHOLE OTHER thing.
Regarding Mr. Hoffman’s “performance”, I say, “FINE”. I’d rather have someone who steps up to the line to STOP THE INSANITY than a RINO or the DEM candidate (Owens). We need MORE people who are fresh and clean in government, not fewer. I’m certain that Mr. Hoffman will do BETTER than either Owens or Scozzafava given the platforms that those two espoused.
BTW, F**K Dick Armey and to H*LL with Sarah with respect to what my opinions are regarding the path that AMERICA needs to follow to get itself back in order.
Yes, I hope that Hoffman DOES win the election; and I hope that he does well. That, I would say, would work towards AMERICA’S advantage. THAT is what I’m concerned about. To H*LL with the Rs and to H*LL with the Ds – if they are not the right people for the job.
We need AMERICANS for the job, nor Rs or Ds, per se.
David says: “We need AMERICANS for the job, nor Rs or Ds, per se.”
Scozzafava is not an American?
PenniePan says: I have a terrible Halloween candy/sugar migraine. I have been worthless for 2 days now. Oh and we’ll happily take DeDe.
Marsha says: How much $ did the NRCC spend on this turncoat Rino? Obscene. I’m thinking this could be the birth of a viable 3rd national party, Conservative, with the GOP pulling up the rear. It’s because of this kind of sh*t that I don’t give to the RNC anymore.
Paul says: Scozzafava was promised a lot I think and feels betrayed by the GOP which is why she’s supporting Owens. Here are my predictions for NY’s 23rd:
Hoffman 43%
Owens 38%
Scozzafava 16%
Other 4%
NJ goes to Corzine because when it comes down to it, NJ is Democrat first, honest second.
Virginia goes Republican.
BikerDan says: You know Joe “God Love Ya” Biden was stumping for Owens today and here is just an excerpt of what he said to the PARTIALLY FILLED room:
“The crowd boos as Biden mentions Sarah Palin’s endorsement of Doug Hoffman. He jumps in: “Look, she just has — her views are real and they’re consistent with [Dick] Armey and with [Rush] Limbaugh and with Dick Cheney. Look, these guys are entitled to their views.”
Saying the GOP doesn’t have room for moderates anymore, Biden invites centrists to try voting Democratic: “Let me assure you, we have room. We have room. … We welcome you. We’re not asking you to switch your party, we’re asking you to join us and teach a lesson” to the right wing of the GOP.”
We’ll see about that Joe. Got that from this link: http://www.politico.com/
who knew that a small congressional district in upstate NY would be a lot more fun to watch then the world series?
pennie sorry you don’t feel well. at least you know its not swine flu.
dan thats an incredible quote from biden. ‘teach a lesson’ indeed.
Ken says: Yes, indeed, ask Joe Lieberman about how open the dems are to “dissenting” opinions. Yet, the libs all conveniently, and quickly apparently, all forget that.
Scozzafava is an American, but she is not a Republican. She was simply a liberal who branded herself as a Republican in order to win a certain district.
“And, as far as Doug Hoffman having citizen’s best interests at heart, according to the Watertown Daily Times, Mr. Hoffman knows exactly squat about local transportation and economic issues. During an interview with the daily times, Mr. Hoffman became flustered and complained that he should have been submitted a list of questions before the interview. His performance, by most accounts was miserable.”
Hmmm, sounds like a certain president I know, yet nobody seems to be bothered by that.
“Dick Armey and Sweet Sister Sarah tell you that Hoffman’s your man and you all rally to the flag.”
That’s ridiculous Dade. People were fans of Hoffman before Palin and Armey endorsed them. More conjecture on your part? Nice try.
“Never mind that the guy is an empty suit.”
Please see my previous reference to a certain president.
“I have been worthless for 2 days now.”
Nonsense Pennie!! You’ve been worthless for a lot longer than 2 days!
Jane says: Well some of you may laugh but I feel quite sorry for Dede. She has been publically humiliated by her own political party. The GOP needs to pay for that.
Ken says: “She has been publically humiliated by her own political party.”
Why? Because she didn’t get the nomination? Again, do you care to explain Joe Lieberman? That’s just stupid, Jane.
“The GOP needs to pay for that.”
Ah, yes, the mindset of the DNC, “Make them pay”. From the looks of it, we’re all going to pay for their idiocy.
Eucindra says: If Hoffman wins, it proves Club for Growth can buy elections.
Ken says: “If Hoffman wins, it proves Club for Growth can buy elections.”
As opposed to ACORN stealing elections for the dems???
PenniePan says: Ken it’s so nice to see how compassionate our law enforcement in this country are.
I’m sure Faux News has had Doug Hoffman on most of today and probably tonite too on Hannity. *PUKE*
David says: Dade, I think you’ve missed the point. Dede (the R) and Owens (the Dem) are both Americans, I presume… but they have a LOT of what I call POLITICAL BAGGAGE – or rather, gobbly-gook in the brain. I feel that America can do without that; and can do WITH Americans who aren’t espousing what Dede & Owens are espousing & advocating.
And, Jane – How was Dede publicly humiliated by her own political party? She was selected by the RNC, supported to the tune of close to $1,000,000 by the Rs, and then suspended her campaign on her own accord – throwing her support to the DEM. EVEN IF the “party” did her wrong, are her principals SO THIN that she’d support the OPPOSITION just out of spite??? If so, I’m sorry she was even running for an important position in the first place.
David says: Pennie, Ken had some good points but I agree that his last point (attempted joke, maybe?) did slip ‘over the edge’.
Glad you’re healthier.
Though, I still disagree with most of your stated positions & supported legislations. : p
cocoa says: It’s really telling, with a Sarah Palin endorsement, what a sick puppy our political climate is. In a normal thinking world, an endorsement from Caribou Barbie would be the end of a run for any political office other then trash man. She was a disaster in Wasilla. She was a disaster to the state of AK. She brought down the McCain campaign. She quit mid-term. Why do candidates even want her around?
Ken says: “Ken it’s so nice to see how compassionate our law enforcement in this country are.”
Oh, Pennie, that means so much coming from someone who holds our military in such contempt and refuses to donate to “right wing” causes that support wounded soldiers.
You have repeatedly shown your ignorance and hatred, so save the feigned outrage for someone who doesn’t know you as well.
gene says: we don’t want fat chicks in the dem party. you can keep deedee.
First, Ken:
Yes, indeed, ask Joe Lieberman about how open the dems are to “dissenting” opinions. Yet, the libs all conveniently, and quickly apparently, all forget that.
Here’s what I don’t like about Lieberman: in the US Senate, where every single senator has an ego bigger than the Great Outdoors, Lieberman is still the most pompous, least sincere, and self-absorbed person in that “august” body. There are quotes of Lieberman (I leave it to you to find them, but they’re out there) stating publicly that a public health care plan is needed in 2006.
The guy just likes to be in the limelight. The GOP might be calling him a hero right now, but you can be sure he’d sh*t on them at the very first opportunity.
Scozzafava is an American, but she is not a Republican. She was simply a liberal who branded herself as a Republican in order to win a certain district.
She was a Republican chosen by local Republican party officials who are familiar with the issues within the 43rd district. She certainly did not adhere to a strict party line with regard to national issues. But, you see, this is the problem with your Conservative movement: it requires 100% conformity when it comes to certain key issues: abortion, military policy, corporate regulation, et alia.
I think Paul’s predictions above are right on the money. So Hoffman will probably win the seat. And the 43rd will suffer for it. If Hoffman doesn’t know the local issues, he won’t be able to effectively fight for his districts share of the federal largess. And don’t forget there is a military base in the 43rd. The Democrats, of course, are in charge of Congress and you can be sure they’ll freeze Hoffman out of just about everything. The 43rd is in for some hard times!
“And, as far as Doug Hoffman having citizen’s best interests at heart, according to the Watertown Daily Times, Mr. Hoffman knows exactly squat about local transportation and economic issues. During an interview with the daily times, Mr. Hoffman became flustered and complained that he should have been submitted a list of questions before the interview. His performance, by most accounts was miserable.”
Hmmm, sounds like a certain president I know, yet nobody seems to be bothered by that.
Sorry, Ken, but that’s an extremely weak response. “Yeah, well Obama’s the same way!”? Really?
“Dick Armey and Sweet Sister Sarah tell you that Hoffman’s your man and you all rally to the flag.”
That’s ridiculous Dade. People were fans of Hoffman before Palin and Armey endorsed them. More conjecture on your part? Nice try.
Well, I’d never heard of Hoffman before this. And I pay attention to politics. Just like everybody else who regularly contributes to this blog, I read a lot. (We each just choose to ignore different things).
Now David:
Dade, I think you’ve missed the point. Dede (the R) and Owens (the Dem) are both Americans, I presume… but they have a LOT of what I call POLITICAL BAGGAGE – or rather, gobbly-gook in the brain. I feel that America can do without that; and can do WITH Americans who aren’t espousing what Dede & Owens are espousing & advocating.
Be more specific! What are these two people supposedly espousing?
Again, I repeat: the conservative movement of which so many of you here claim to be a part, is an ideologically rigid entity that, I believe, is a last gasp bid to cling to power. It’s a reaction to the irreversible changes that are occurring within the United States. Changes in demographics, changes in religious make-up, changes in social mores.
Go right down the line with the issues:
1. Immigration – the conservative movement is for more or less militarizing the border with Mexico, has attempted on more than one occasion to formally recognize English as the official language of the United States, and refers to undocumented workers as “illegals.” Translation: xenophobia
2. Religious freedom – the conservative movement is unabashedly Christian. Jews are tolerated insofar as they are allies in foreign policy issues, advocating aggressive military posturing. But Muslims are certainly not welcome within the movement, which is ironic considering how very conservative are most Muslims. Translation: eschatalogical fervor
3. Social issues – the conservative movement is dead set against gay marriage, fanatical (to the point of murder and terror bombings) about abortion, and mostly in favor of the “War on Drugs.” Any infringement on corporate behavior, any public spending for the common good, any recognition of the rights of others they call “socialism.” Translation: recognition of a permanent decline in political status
So, there you have it.
I think this movement, this tea-bag thing, is bad for the country. This is not like people protesting against a war. The news is full of stories of violence from the conservative movement.
I say all of this respectfully.
Ken says: “Here’s what I don’t like about Lieberman: in the US Senate, where every single senator has an ego bigger than the Great Outdoors, Lieberman is still the most pompous, least sincere, and self-absorbed person in that “august” body.”
That’s your opinion, Dade, not a fact. The bottom line is, the dems didn’t mind Lieberman’s “ego”, please see his nomination for VICE PRESIDENT in 2000, until he went to Iraq himself, and then came back saying things weren’t as bad as they were being made out by Harry Reid and Pelosi and Co. He suddenly was run out of the dem party. It’s the same exact thing that you have been complaining about the Republicans doing, but somehow you justify it. No matter how you want to dress it up, that’s the bottom line. Not to mention, your response dealt with your personal opinion of Lieberman, not the fact that he was run out of the democratic party.
“But, you see, this is the problem with your Conservative movement: it requires 100% conformity when it comes to certain key issues: abortion, military policy, corporate regulation, et alia.”
She was nothing more than a rubber stamp for Pelosi and Co. Why do you think the dems were so big on her Dade?? We don’t require “100% conformity” but it would be nice if they adhered to the basic principles of the conservative movement, namely not pissing away trillions of dollars on bills and plans that produce absolutely nothing while not having the slightest idea of how we were going to pay for it. That sort of thing.
“Sorry, Ken, but that’s an extremely weak response. “Yeah, well Obama’s the same way!”? Really?”
Not really. It’s just highlighting the hypocrisy of the left who want to scream about things like “empty suits” in Congress when they have the mother of all empty suits in the White House. Why is an empty suit ok for the White House, but suddenly not good enough for a NY Congressman. Hypocrisy, at its finest.
“Well, I’d never heard of Hoffman before this. And I pay attention to politics.”
Ah, I see. So if you’ve never heard of a candidate it automatically means that they have been endorsed by Palin and Armey. Makes sense.
As far as “The issues”, Dade:
1) Immigration: Illegally entering the United States makes them “illegal”, get it? Also, don’t forget that Ronald Reagan, an icon to the conservative movement, was very pro-immigration.
2) Religious freedom: Ah, so we tolerate Jews and hate Muslims, how very……tired. As you have demanded from David, please be more specific. Have conservatives tried to have Islam banned from the U.S.? Have they tried to deport everyone of the Muslim faith? Please provide examples of our intolerance.
3)Social issues: You’re right about gay marriage. The abortion reference was a bit “Chris Matthews” if I do say so myself. There have been some lunatics who have done some very ugly things, but to try and tie it to being the “conservative” movement is pretty low. As far as the spending for the common good, I assume you are referring to health care. We’ve been round and round about this and the facts don’t usually stack up in your corner, as usual.
“I think this movement, this tea-bag thing, is bad for the country.”
And that’s the bottom line, isn’t it Dade? You don’t like that people are speaking out against things YOU believe in, so it must be bad for the country. What was it you were saying about Lieberman’s huge ego????
“The news is full of stories of violence from the conservative movement. ”
Because we all know how non-biased the news is, right Dade? The left has a few choice moments of violence themselves, but that doesn’t seem to bother you or our one party media. Perhaps because they espouse the same political views as you do, hmmm?
That’s your opinion, Dade, not a fact. The bottom line is, the dems didn’t mind Lieberman’s “ego”, please see his nomination for VICE PRESIDENT in 2000, until he went to Iraq himself, and then came back saying things weren’t as bad as they were being made out by Harry Reid and Pelosi and Co. He suddenly was run out of the dem party. It’s the same exact thing that you have been complaining about the Republicans doing, but somehow you justify it. No matter how you want to dress it up, that’s the bottom line. Not to mention, your response dealt with your personal opinion of Lieberman, not the fact that he was run out of the democratic party.
Stating that a person is a Senator and has a Big Ego is an exercise in redundancy. But, again, Lieberman takes the cake. He likes to be in the middle. He likes to have people kiss his ring. He likes that both sides court him and he plays hard to get. I don’t like his stance on anything, but that doesn’t matter because he will change his stance in a heartbeat if there is any political advantage to doing so.
She was nothing more than a rubber stamp for Pelosi and Co. Why do you think the dems were so big on her Dade??
The Democrats weren’t all that big on her, seeing as they nominated their own candidate. Scozzafava did have the support of Newt Gingrich and Michael Steele, though. That’s gonna bite those two in the ass.
We don’t require “100% conformity” but it would be nice if they adhered to the basic principles of the conservative movement, namely not pissing away trillions of dollars on bills and plans that produce absolutely nothing while not having the slightest idea of how we were going to pay for it. That sort of thing.
If you’re advocating fiscal responsibility, that’s fine. But the Republican party, and the conservative movement have absolutely no credibility on that score. Reagan ran up the biggest deficits in history up until Junior Bush surpassed him. Obama, of course, has gone even further. So, if that’s your beef with Obama, that he’s too much of a spender, that’s fair.
Not really. It’s just highlighting the hypocrisy of the left who want to scream about things like “empty suits” in Congress when they have the mother of all empty suits in the White House. Why is an empty suit ok for the White House, but suddenly not good enough for a NY Congressman. Hypocrisy, at its finest.
I would only be a hypocrite if I agreed with you that Obama is an empty suit. I don’t believe that he is. He’s smart, he’s eloquent, and he’s showing a lot of political skill. I certainly don’t agree with him on all the issues. But he’s no dummy.
Ah, I see. So if you’ve never heard of a candidate it automatically means that they have been endorsed by Palin and Armey. Makes sense.
Well, let’s put it this way: I read as much about the conservative movement, I’d be willing to bet, as anyone else on this blog. And I had never heard of Doug Hoffman before last month.
1) Immigration: Illegally entering the United States makes them “illegal”, get it? Also, don’t forget that Ronald Reagan, an icon to the conservative movement, was very pro-immigration.
People don’t like being referred to as “illegals.” It makes them feel that you despise them. And then you alienate them. And most of them are latino. And that means you offend the latinos in this country. And they’re the fastest growing demographic in this nation. And that’s not going to change in our lifetime.
2) Religious freedom: Ah, so we tolerate Jews and hate Muslims, how very……tired. As you have demanded from David, please be more specific. Have conservatives tried to have Islam banned from the U.S.? Have they tried to deport everyone of the Muslim faith? Please provide examples of our intolerance.
Well, they haven’t tried to ban Islam from the US because it would be impossible to do so. Same with the deportation. I’m not accusing everyone in the conservative movement of being anti-Muslim, least of all you, because I know you respect Islam.
But I’ve seen the websites that you’ve seen. What about the whole “Obama is a secret Muslim” screed? Are you going to tell me that doesn’t exist? That it’s not real? What about Dick Cheney’s sycophant Frank Gaffney who wrote an article for the Washington Times entitled “America’s first Muslim president?”
3)Social issues: You’re right about gay marriage. The abortion reference was a bit “Chris Matthews” if I do say so myself. There have been some lunatics who have done some very ugly things, but to try and tie it to being the “conservative” movement is pretty low.
Just yesterday, people who call themselves conservatives tried to hold an online raffle on eBay to raise funds to defend Scott Roeder, the guy who killed Dr. Tiller. You know what they were selling? A David versus Goliath representation of Dr. Tiller’s murder, autographed by Scott Roeder himself!
As far as the spending for the common good, I assume you are referring to health care. We’ve been round and round about this and the facts don’t usually stack up in your corner, as usual.
When it comes to war, conservatives spend like drunken sailors. When it comes to taking care of people, they get real stingy.
“I think this movement, this tea-bag thing, is bad for the country.”
And that’s the bottom line, isn’t it Dade? You don’t like that people are speaking out against things YOU believe in, so it must be bad for the country. What was it you were saying about Lieberman’s huge ego????
I’ll have to think about what you’re saying. I can’t readily answer you. You might be right about this, but I hope you’re not. That is, I hope I’m being honest with my arguments.
When it comes to motives, do any of us really know why we do anything?
“The news is full of stories of violence from the conservative movement. ”
Because we all know how non-biased the news is, right Dade? The left has a few choice moments of violence themselves, but that doesn’t seem to bother you or our one party media. Perhaps because they espouse the same political views as you do, hmmm?
The left certainly committed violence in the ’60s. And there have been arrests at protests, but that’s nothing new. There haven’t been any crazed leftists showing up at the AIPAC conventions shooting people. There haven’t been any bombs going off at gun shows.
David says: Dade, I was reading your post about Conservatives with great interest…. until you totally blew it by calling the tea PARTIERS “tea-baggers”. I’m sorry to see your argument become unsupported by your childish behavior.
David says: Dade,
You said, “If Hoffman doesn’t know the local issues, he won’t be able to effectively fight for his districts share of the federal largess. And don’t forget there is a military base in the 43rd. The Democrats, of course, are in charge of Congress and you can be sure they’ll freeze Hoffman out of just about everything. The 43rd is in for some hard times!”
First, do you know the definition of “largess”?? If so, why should ANYONE be content with it? Why should ANYONE “fight” for largess?? They should be fighting AGAINST LARGESS!!!!!! It’s this type of “gimme, gimme, gimme” attitude that Hoffman shines AGAINST. It’s this type of attitude that gets/got America into trillions upon trillions of dollars of debt!! Sheesh.
David says: Dade, I will respond to your ‘accusations’ against Conservatives:
You said,
“1. Immigration – the conservative movement is for more or less militarizing the border with Mexico, has attempted on more than one occasion to formally recognize English as the official language of the United States, and refers to undocumented workers as ‘illegals.’ Translation: xenophobia”
I say that the Conservative movement is for the rule of law. We are a nation of laws, not of men. Part of what a Country IS, is a political entity – a body defined and defended by law. The Conservatives want to see that law NOT ignored – especially at the risk of our financial, social & criminal peril. As far as English being supported as an ‘official’ language of the country, FINE. Switzerland has FOUR official languages as far as I recall. I suppose your next post will be about the Swiss? BTW, how do you think millions of ‘undocumented workers’ got that way – undocumented? Was it perhaps by stealing across the U.S. national border without proper authorization? ILLEGALLY, as it were! i.e. ILLEGALS. It’s pretty clear and concise, Dade. Again, an example of Conservatives calling a spade a spade. Too direct & clear for you? Are you too used to the DEMS fog to get it??
Dade also said,
“2. Religious freedom – the conservative movement is unabashedly Christian. Jews are tolerated insofar as they are allies in foreign policy issues, advocating aggressive military posturing. But Muslims are certainly not welcome within the movement, which is ironic considering how very conservative are most Muslims. Translation: eschatalogical fervor”
I respond, what does it matter if the Conservative movement is unabashedly Christian? It is what it is. Should they change their religious convictions just so you can type on paper that the movement is something else? Should they have a certain percentage of their ‘membership’ convert to another religion just so you can feel good about yourself & PC (not REAL) ‘diversity’??? And why do you say that Jews or Muslims or Hindus or Shintos or Buddhist, etc. aren’t welcome? I certainly don’t feel that way; and nobody I know has asked to ‘kick out’ fellow believers to the movement just because they worship on Friday instead of Sunday.
Dada also opined that,
“3. Social issues – the conservative movement is dead set against gay marriage, fanatical (to the point of murder and terror bombings) about abortion, and mostly in favor of the “War on Drugs.” Any infringement on corporate behavior, any public spending for the common good, any recognition of the rights of others they call “socialism.” Translation: recognition of a permanent decline in political status”
I say that the Conservative movement is set against gay ‘marriage’ but I understand that if two people (same gendered or not) wish to enter into a legal contract that addresses their legal needs with respect to inheritance or visitation or executor or power-of-attorney – that already exists.
Yes, Conservatives are against abortion; we feel that any society that feels that it’s OK to kill their babies will not survive. That position ‘erodes the essence of our being’; it makes us cold-hearted and it undercuts our society’s moral authority. It wounds the women who are subjected to it; and ignores the men involved.
Yes, Conservatives are in favor of NOT advocating chaos with respect to your comment about the ‘war on drugs’. I think this was covered quite well in the other post about POT, etc. i.e. MEDICAL marijuana is acceptable, AS LONG AS IT’S LEGAL AND FOLLOWED LEGALLY and not permitted to be misused and abused and given to minors, etc.
Lastly, you say “any” infringement on corporate behavior, “any” public spending for the common good, “any” recognition of the rights of others they (Conservatives) call ‘socialism.’ That is just too much of a simplification. ANY?? No. For example, SOME taxes are expected – to run the federal government. But the federal government is a ‘CHILD’ of the states, not a ‘FATHER’. The federal government has FEW mandates – one of the main one’s being national DEFENSE. THAT is why Conservatives are “pro military”, among other things. …and as far as Conservatives being against “any” recognition of the rights of others?? Oh, Puh-lease… On the contrary, Conservatives recognize and fight for many, many rights of others. Actual rights. Described rights, not invented “rights” or twisted “rights” or trendy “rights”. And socialism, yes, that is something that we believe is counter to the essence of the U.S. Constitution – our nation’s FOUNDATION.
David says: Dade said, “Scozzafava did have the support of Newt Gingrich and Michael Steele, though. That’s gonna bite those two in the ass.” And you’re RIGHT! : )
He also noted that, “Just yesterday, people who call themselves conservatives tried to hold an online raffle on eBay to raise funds to defend Scott Roeder, the guy who killed Dr. Tiller. You know what they were selling? A David versus Goliath representation of Dr. Tiller’s murder, autographed by Scott Roeder himself!” And he’s RIGHT AGAIN!! Those people can’t see the ‘forest for the trees’. Tiller’s killer is a killer. Yes, he is entitled to a trial and yes, he’s entitled to a defense at that trial. But to go over the top ‘in support of him’ is despicable, in my opinion.
And also, in response to an inquiry, “I’ll have to think about what you’re saying. I can’t readily answer you. You might be right about this, but I hope you’re not. That is, I hope I’m being honest with my arguments.
When it comes to motives, do any of us really know why we do anything?” A good insight, Dade. : )
PenniePan says: Tsk. Some of you men sound like it’s that time of the month for you. Stay away from caffeine. It makes it worse.
Excellent discussions, David and Ken! Given me lots to think about.
Let’s take it up again another time.
Ken says: “Excellent discussions, David and Ken! Given me lots to think about.”
As you have for me. I wish our elected officials could talk more rather than posturing for position, or a camera!!
“Let’s take it up again another time.”
Agreed! I’ll bring the beer next time!!
“Tsk. Some of you men sound like it’s that time of the month for you. Stay away from caffeine. It makes it worse.”
Out of all those wonderful exchanges yours was by far the most thought provoking.
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