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i suppose this utter hypocrisy is just more evidence of a deepening September 10th mentality.
did you know that 4 high ranking democrats (along with 2 republicans) who held oversite positions on a congressional intelligence committee, met in secret back in 2002 for a first look at the CIA’s ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ including waterboarding?
on that day, no objections were raised. those lawmakers were democrats nancy pelosi, jane harman, bob graham and john d. rockefeller as well as republicans porter goss and pat roberts. in fact, there were 30 of these types of briefings.
now with liberals in power, their unrequited search for the head of george bush, is looking to a ‘truth commission’ to finally deliver that prize. their fantasy, fueled by The One’s flop flops, is being marshalled by none other then nancy pelosi.
“WASHINGTON – House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has stepped up Democrats’ calls to form a torture “truth commission,” urging President Obama not to give immunity to anyone who illegally abused terror thugs.”
that’s interesting nancy. you are not for giving immunity to anyone? what about yourself? note her escape clause: ‘illegally’.
this story came out basically in 2007. nancy made NO COMPLAINTS back then to the 911 commission when she testified before them. she also, when asked point blank by chris wallace on fox news sunday, said nothing then as well. liar.
pelosi and the rest of The One’s minions who are calling for this torture truth commission, might want to remember that an investigation can’t be a selective review of information, or solely focused on the lawyers who wrote the memos, or the low-level employees who carried out this program, or even at ‘high value liberal targets’ like rummy or vice president cheney as reader dade would like.
an investigation would include all members (d & r) who attended any briefings on enhanced interrogation techniques; it would include those in congress (are you listening nancy?) and the bush administration who reviewed and supported this program; and it would also require that the obama administration release the memos requested by former vice president dick cheney on the successes of this program – you know, the ones they DON’T want to release.
do dems really believe that the american people will become angry at the way the bush administration handled terrorists in the war on terror?
frankly it’s much more likely that such an investigation will anger the political center of this country, and convince them both that america has not treated detainees badly, and that obama is going too far in rolling back bush’s policies. it will also give those who called for the witch hunt, lovely shiners.
and finally, if the dems really want to go down this road of show trials designed to further attack a republican president over foreign policy questions, they run the risk of turning a back bench doj attorney into the next oliver north.
THAT, would simply slay them.
>>do dems really believe that the american people will become angry at the way the bush administration handled terrorists in the war on terror?
The only ones who do now are a small group of anti-American kooks who can’t see beyond their blind hated of America and the Constitution of the USA. If it’s blood they want they need to be careful, it very well might end up being their own.
micky says: The only reason these morons didnt go after Bush with impeachment over his supposed lying to go to war is because they knew that if they went down that road they would have to go after almost all of the dem congress that voted in favor of war whom all saw the same intelligence as Bush leading them to believe what he did. Along with that and many of them leading up to the war being on record giving testimonials to how dangerous Saddam was you’d think with that in mind they’d leave this alone.
Man, all cynicism and sarchasim aside I honestly believe these people are so hatefully angry that it clouds whatever sense of logic they have left.
I guess right about know were all listening to Pelosiraptor doing her best to cover her a$$. The dems know this is gonna come back on them and what we see Pelosi doing is just the beggining ofa really huge “UH OH ! Thats not the can of worms we asked for !”
The fact that Pelosi does not fear an investigation is telling isn’t it?
Let the facts come out before you try to predict how the American public will judge the matter.
If the reports that Bush administration officials ordered these harsh interrogation techniques as a means of forcing confessions out of detainees that established a non-existent link between Saddam and al Qaeda are true, that’s a serious matter.
If the reports that Condi Rice lied before the Armed Services Committee when she testified about the “torture” meetings are true, that’s a serious matter.
If the reports that the White House attempted to destroy dissenting legal memos that asserted the enhanced interrogation techniques were illegal are true, that’s a serious matter.
Lastly, let’s review what is already established: Both Condi Rice and Dick Cheney authorized the use of water-boarding as an interrogation technique. And, to repeat: Officers of the Imperial Japanese Army were tried, convicted, and put to death for water-boarding US servicemen after WWII.
Let’s let the facts come out. If the Bush administration has done nothing wrong, why should they fear an investigation? Pelosi obviously doesn’t.
moonlvr says: I can hardly wait for the hearings and investigations. This whole travesty needs to be brought into public arena to the people so we can see what the criminal administration of Geoge Bush was all about. What about justice for Alyssa Peterson? She was was a US Soldier who committed suicide because she could not torture another human being and the Bush government covered it all up!!!!!! That is the outrage people!!!!!!!!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-mitchell/us-soldier-killed-herself_b_190517.html
>>micky said: Man, all cynicism and sarchasim aside I honestly believe these people are so hatefully angry that it clouds whatever sense of logic they have left.
They’re libs, they don’t do “logic.” It’s all emotions with them. But otherwise, spot on.
This hatred of Bush has nothing to do with justice, they want revenge. They’ve wanted it since their kooky talking heads told them to believe Bush stole the election in 2000. You’re dealing with individuals (I don’t refer to them as people, because they aren’t) who won’t be satisfied with anything less than convictions for those they hate. If an investigation took place and the people they’ve pinned as already being guilty weren’t convicted, they’d be screaming that the crimes were all covered up, or some other quack explanation they would need to dream up to convince themselves they’re right but that justice wasn’t served. These are majorily unstable and unhappy individuals. Somewhere along the line someone provided them a great disservice by falsely leading them to believe they were intelligent when, in fact, they’re dumber than a bag of hammers.
Saginaw_MI says: Torture was used by the criminals aka the Bush administration to falsely justify the unwarranted and unnecessary invasion of Iraq.
And now payback is a bitch isn’t it?
PenniePan says: For eight years we on the left were labelled by you on the right as traitors, appeasers, haters, and unpatriotic. You had us hamstrung by virtue of your numbers in congress and the WH. But you squandered that like you always do and now to borrow a phrase “your chickens have come home to roost” and you don’t like it much do you?
Well too bad. We are coming after your criminal leadership. Bush, Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeld, Rice, and all of their minions. It will be on TV for the world to see your crimes and your shame. Then we will haul most of your precious ones off to jail but because of the humanity of Barack, Shrub will be pardoned and sent back to rot in that backwards hell hole called Texas.
‘backwards hell hole called Texas’
yikes pennie. rope won’t let that one slide. if i were you, i’d get out of dodge er, laredo.
spoooky says: “We’re going to follow the law where ever it takes us.” President Barack Obama
See ya Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Bushy, and all you dupes who did the deed. I wonder if they will consider getting poked in the butt by bubba torture?
BikerDan says: “did you know that 4 high ranking democrats (along with 2 republicans) who held oversite positions on a congressional intelligence committee, met in secret back in 2002 for a first look at the CIA’s ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ including waterboarding?”
I think we’ll find many democrats who knew about all of this and didn’t care at the time. This is hypocrasy at our national security’s expense.
“The fact that Pelosi does not fear an investigation is telling isn’t it?”
Not really. Just more typical posturing that we’re used to. She knows there will not be, at least she better hope that there isn’t one.
“The first such briefing dealt with the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah, the Al Qaeda operations chief who ran the training camps in Afghanistan where the Sept. 11 hijackers were trained. Sources said California Rep. Nancy Pelosi, now the speaker of the House, attended the meeting with then-Rep. Porter Goss, R-Fla. (who later became CIA director), and she did not raise any objections.”
“Defenders of the interrogation program note that if Congress had wanted to kill the program, all it had to do was withhold funding, which didn’t happen.”
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
“Officers of the Imperial Japanese Army were tried, convicted, and put to death for water-boarding US servicemen after WWII.”
Got a link to that? I have found many articles documenting how the Japanese were exectued for the atrocities they committed, mainly the millions of people that they slaughtered during the reign of the Japanese Empire, but I didn’t find any that said they were executed specifivally for waterboarding. I’m sure you wouldn’t compare the slaughtering of millions of innocent people to waterboarding three people.
moonlvr, you’ll have to better than an article written by a hack for the Huffington Post that is taking advantage of an obviously sick soldier committing suicide. You stay classy lefties!!
The hypocrisy of the left is absolutely stunning. If you realy cared about “truth” or “justice” you would be demanding an investigation of Clinton as well, but you’re not. You’re not because you’re still angry and bitter and this is the only glimmer of hope in your lives. Keep dreaming of investigations folks. I imagine this will be put on the back burner until a serious scandal or Obama foreign policy screw up comes along, which shouldn’t take too long, then we’ll see the release of more memos.
It’s so sad that none of you question the release of these memos and continue to be used by Obama and his cronies. You’re dancing to his tune.
Ken,
Here’s a link to an article about IJA waterboarding American servicemen. I stand corrected, however. The IJA officer in this article was not executed. He was sentenced to 15 years hard labor.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/04/AR2006100402005.html
Regarding the supposed hypocrisy of demanding investigations into the “torture memo” issue while not also demanding investigations into the Clinton administration, this: The Clinton administration was investigated, Clinton was impeached, and the Senate found him not guilty.
Aside from that, the severity of the crimes are not on the same scale. Bush officials may have used torture to extract false confessions from detainees. That’s the stuff of the Spanish Inquisition, my friend.
And, if everything was above board, why should the Bush administration fear an investigation?
As I predicted yesterday, I think when all the facts come out, many Republicans (perhaps even some of those that frequent this blog) will start distancing themselves from the Bush administration.
We’ll just have to wait and see…
micky says: “The fact that Pelosi does not fear an investigation is telling isn’t it? ”
You might see it that way but what I see is a woman being the first in line to say “don’t look at me”
“Let’s let the facts come out. If the Bush administration has done nothing wrong, why should they fear an investigation? Pelosi obviously doesn’t.”
Who said they feared an investigation ?
If they did then why has Cheny been on every news outlet bragging about what they did and how well it worked ?
If Pelosi doesn’t fear one its only because she knows she’ll be able to play stupid and get away with it.
Please man, you’re just repeating defeated points from the previous thread.
Saginaw.
So what ? Because you say so ? Good for you.
The FACT is that we didn’t need to torture anyone to find just reason to invade Iraq.
We already had more than enough legal reasons to invade.
Where the hell do you guys dig this crap up from ? Where have you been that you think only if they get caught trying to bring false confessions that means the war was unwarranted and unnecessary ?
Unnecessary and unwarranted are simply your personal perspective which is really worth squat in the big arena. The decision makers including most of your own party don’t agree with you.
“your chickens have come home to roost” and you don’t like it much do you? ”
This is riot.
In just 2 days most people on both sides of the aisle have figured out that the dems don’t really want to get mixed up in this can of worms for fear of self incrimination but there’s still those that think only cons will go down if this dumb a$$ witch hunt takes place.
Do some research and reading Pennie before you get so carried away with your dreams. Its all a bunch of hollow accusations laced with nothing but a projection of your hate filled fantasies.
You guys don’t care if this country is made more accountable, efficient, or stronger.
As your comment has made abundantly clear you and your party just want blood no matter what. Even if it means labeling the troops as terrorists or intentionally leaving mitigating evidence out of the memos.
Don’t talk to us about “CRIMINALS !
You’re idiot president has already tried to sway the evidence as he outed classified intelligence to every enemy on the planet while at the same time letting them know just where we will stop in any interrogation
Dreamers
micky says: Whats wrong with this picture ?
AP prints a story saying; “For the first time in years, more Americans than not say the country is headed in the right direction”
And then I go to look at the poll results and this is what we get
Do you think the country is headed in the right direction?
No 58%
Yes 42%
Unbelievable
I know its off topic but I just couldnt let it go.
PenniePan says: “Do some research and reading Pennie before you get so carried away with your dreams. Its all a bunch of hollow accusations laced with nothing but a projection of your hate filled fantasies.”
Hey Micky worry about your own sick fantasies…I’ve seen your raunchy blog.
PenniePan says: Oh! and Mickey no personal attacks remember?
“your hate filled fantasies.”
Pat says: I have been very happy with Obama’s approach on this so far. We are getting into something that once launched, will take on a life of its own, and you can bet there will be unintended consequences probably good and bad.
For those of you who think Bush will get caught in this, its not going to happen. Look at Reagan in Iran Contra. But Cheney maybe… but be prepared for a hell of a fight, and it won’t be a clean one. If we can take him down, we should.
micky says: Oh! and Mickey no personal attacks remember?
“your hate filled fantasies.”
You need to learn the difference between a dircet aattck on your person and one that attacks what I percieve you and the partys intentions to be.
I guess in that case you should also be upset because I’ve accused the entire democratic party of hate filled fantasies.
It was not personal, the hatred I see is not directed at me in this context. I believe you are a hateful person towards the Bush administration. You display it in your comments. Its not said out of spite or gratuity, its said to describe what good innocent people are up against.
Ken says: “The Clinton administration was investigated, Clinton was impeached, and the Senate found him not guilty.”
The Clinton administration was investigated for its role in the Whitewater scandals, not rendition.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/1998/nov/18/clinton.usa
I guess that’s because back then people weren’t outing top secret programs that we use against terrorists. It’s not too late though, if Bush should be investigated so should Clinton. If Clinton’s got nothing to fear, it shouldn’t be a problem, right?
“Aside from that, the severity of the crimes are not on the same scale.”
So its a different scale when the President outsources that torture to other countries, rather than orders it done himself?
“We’ll just have to wait and see…”
Agreed.
Kray says: To waterboard someone 183 times, the only possible reasons are:
you’re a sick f*ck who likes to torture people
You insist on information that the detainee can’t possibly provide
Somebody has to pay. There has to be accountability imo.
Jing says: Imagine if under a permanent Republican majority this kind of torture was allowed to continue for years and years.
Eventually the right-wing extremists would have moved this from a Gitmo-like torture facility to your friendly neighborhood homeland security station, formerly known as police station to use against you and me.
An investigation can’t come too soon.
Ken says: So now we’re doing imaginary scenarios??? Ok, how about this?
Imagine under a permanent democratic majority you’re not allowed to use anything more than harsh language to interview capture terrorists. There wouldn’t be a building higher than 5 stories left standing and hundreds of thousands would be dying in this country.
Great alternative.
micky says: “So now we’re doing imaginary scenarios???”
Yea, they put up hate filled personal wish lists with no real life facts to back it up or justify it like Pennies and then ask you not to get personal.
“To waterboard someone 183 times, the only possible reasons are:
you’re a sick f*ck who likes to torture people”
Not really, there could of been a hundred reasons that none of us will ever know.
Having one detainee already give up viable info, some of it saying that other detainees have info gives cause to go after that other detainee since hes already been proven a reliable source.
Funny how all these lefties are screaming for justice yet they’re all so ready and willing to convict someone without knowing the facts.
‘Eventually the right-wing extremists would have moved this from a Gitmo-like torture facility to your friendly neighborhood homeland security station, formerly known as police station to use against you and me.’
so jing who do you call when someone is breaking into your home in the middle of the night to rob you? or is threatening to hurt your kid? or rapes your sister? its obviously not that horrible neighborhood homeland security station right?
“Let’s say this slowly: the Bush administration wanted to use 9/11 as a pretext to invade Iraq, even though Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. So it tortured people to make them confess to the nonexistent link.
There’s a word for this: it’s evil.”
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/grand-unified-scandal/
micky says: As soon as I see the name “Krugman” along with the Times I know not to even bother.
lisab says: pelosi knew about the waterboardings ….
she is a war criminal
burn the witch!!!!!
lisab says: “Nancy Pelosi denies knowing U.S. officials used waterboarding — but GOP operatives are pointing to a 2007 Washington Post story which describes an hour-long 2002 briefing in which Pelosi was told about enhanced interrogation techniques in graphic detail.” drudge
burn the witch!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTdDN_MRe64
Jay says: Geeez. There are a lot of pricks who squat here.
I can’t believe thinking, non-evil people take the position that a little smoke, mirrors, and water in the face is torture when the flip side is 3000 murdered Americans. Well here’s the deal: let’s line all of you liberals starting with DADE and ending with prissy PENNIE and put a target on your back as a sacrifice to AQ. Just maybe they’ll spare the rest of us.
lisab says: obviously the most important thing is to prosecute the person still in power, which is nancy pelosi.
you cannot have a war criminal as speaker of the house
and later, if she is found guilty we can worry about others
micky says: I’m telling you, the only purpose all this serves is to spotlight Bush.
These morons should be happy now that they’ve won the election but their addiction to their hatred of Bush still needs to be fed.
Thats all I see here. Any fool knows that not one person will go to jail over this, not one.
There were stories about how Obama wrestled with his conscience about the release of the documents. If you believe that you probably think you own a bridge somewhere.
Obama won the elction running against Bush, not McCain and hes been keeping those BDS flames alive since he came into office. Evertytime he made a trip to Europe of the middle east everything was abaiut a reflection on something connected to Bush. Apologizing for past actions and policies that clearly were those of Bush. After now you would think this would stop but with the torture thing being brought up he can keep that image of himself as the great corrector of George Bush alive for quite a while along with guaranteeing his junkie BDSrs their fix for months if not a couple years. Its the only thing this talentless schmuck can do to make himself look good. Its sickening
Thats why these guys are salivating over this because they know if it goes forward the proceedings, hearings and commisions will be to them what a years supply of heroin is to a junkie.
They dont care about establishing a moral and ethical standard for our country or that this percieved injustice never happens again. They could care less. Thats why we see so many of them ready to convict with no proof. Like a bunch of little children on Christmas morning they are oblivious to anything but to open that package and see an action figure like Bush with a rope around his neck.
Theres no way Obama will be able to prosecute lawyers who simply offered advice or officials who acted in good faith, but by attacking those people it will serve as a great fishing expedition fishing expedition
Any fool knows they wont prosecute and that this is simply going to be the biggest dammed dog and pony show we will of ever seen. If they prosecute they’ll have go after the dems who ok’d these interogation techniques back when the CIA inquired. If that happens you’ll be able to time these proceedings from start to finish with an egg timer.
Jay, I’ve asked them before what they would do if they knew when and where their mother was going to be raped.
They dont answer
micky says: but by attacking those people it will serve as a great fishing expedition fishing expedition
sorry, but I wouldnt put it past him to go twice
For those of you against waterboarding, who among you would risk the sacrifice of your child, your spouse, your neighbor, or even me (someone you don’t even know) to save a deadly terrorist from being waterboarded? Because whether you like it or not that IS what it comes down to in practical purposes. All the rest is simply theories that can be debated endlessly in ethics class.
Found some interesting information about that Japanese soldier who was given 15 years for waterboarding. Apparently he did more than just waterboard:
“Charge: Violation of the Laws and Customs of War: 1. Did willfully and unlawfully mistreat and torture PWs. 2. Did unlawfully take and convert to his own use Red Cross packages and supplies intended for PWs.
Specifications: beating using hands, fists, club; kicking; water torture; burning using cigarettes; strapping on a stretcher head downward”
So he beat people with clubs, kicked them and burned them with cigarettes, a little more than waterboarding, eh?
Not to mention his waterboarding was a little different than our method:
“In waterboarding as it is practiced by the U.S., cellophane or cloth is placed over the subject’s mouth to keep water out of nose and mouth. Asano was pouring water directly into the mouths and noses of subjects which is considerably more harsh and dangerous.”
It seems that there is always a little more to the story.
micky says: As Kate and myself has already said, it boils down to whether or not you would waterboard someone knowing they had info that would stop harm or death from coming to a loved one or fellow American.
Not one moonbat has answered that question yet.
Then again, all this is not really about waterboarding, ethics or whatever fluffy crap they can disguise this as.
Its just another reason to continue the Bush bashing, period.
Its what keeps Obama in his shining armor. Its what feeds the Obamanites, its what keeps them motivated, its their cause, their rally, their religion. Without it they’d have nothing to do.
If this doesnt work the next thing they’ll try is to claim Bush blew up the levees so he could get in cahoots with some real estate developer and flip the 9th ward for a profit. Wait…
Ifd they really want to get into a discussion about morals and ethics wasnt it a democratic president, Harry S Truman who nuked Nagasaki and Hiroshima killing hundreds of thousands of innocents ?
He did what had to be done. No one party can claim more or less ethical standards than the other if we look back on history. So this whole picture were being presented with that its only the right that engages in these things and they destroy our image is all crap. I think the one thing that has stuck more than anything in the worlds minds is that we were the only country to ever nuke another one killing innocent lives, not splashing water on detainees.
So when you eliminate all the other so called reasons for this investigation you can only come up with one thing.
Get Bush !
Jane says: Micky why do you constantly repeat what others have already said over and ove and over? Now, you are even repeating yourself!
By the way all you do is whine that no one answers your questions. Micky EVERYONE has answered your question multiple times! It just isn’t what you want to hear or what you believe is right.
So I will try again: torture is always wrong. Always Micky. There has to be other ways to keep us safe then wallowing in the mud with the pigs.
micky says: “Micky why do you constantly repeat what others have already said over and ove and over? Now, you are even repeating yourself!
Jane, actually if you read the comments its actually others who are repeating me.
Besides, dont you have something better to b*tch about ?
” Micky EVERYONE has answered your question multiple times!”
No you havent, which is why I repeat myself, GOT IT ??
The question has been placed twice , both in slightly different context , but still the same question.
I’ll try again. And if you could, please answer the question with a simple yes or no and not a bunch of obfuscating dribble.
If you knew where and when your mother was going to be raped would you waterboard the man that says he knows where and when your mother would be raped ?
“There has to be other ways to keep us safe then wallowing in the mud with the pigs.”
Until you can come up with something better you have no business critisizing the methods in use.
This is what liberals did in the 60s.
“Tear down the establishment”
Yet they didnt have a clue what they would replace it with.
Jane says: Micky you really need attention don’t you? It’s really pathetic. I’ve answered you. Others answered you. No one copies what you say. I am just finished talking with you. Please do not address me ever again. Thank you.
micky says: Jane, you’re little snips at whatever you think I need are irrelevant and I could care less what you think about me.
You dodge the question by conveniently setting up this fake indignation where I’m just looking for attention and lie through your teeth saying you answered the question.
No, you did not answer the question with a yes or a no but you did leave me with the impression that if torture would save your mother from being raped you would let her be raped.
With that I’ll only assume that you would allow the same for everyone in our country and that you would rather appear as some queen of ethics while everyone around you dies.
YOU LOSE
I will address you all I please. If you wish to ignore me that is your choice
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