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you’ll remember gitmo was called ‘the worst place on earth’ by released detainees, democrats and their allies, the media.
who can forget that president bush took a daily beating over gitmo with the chronic cry from the lefties of how america was hated around the world because of it. gitmo was even shamefully compared to the gulag and auschwitz! of course, this is the same gitmo, where terrorists live at an all expense paid carribean resort, have each gained an average of 18 lbs on our food, are provided all they need in terms of dietary and religious accomodations, and have the best health care in the world!
but now after campaign promises that sent his leftist base to nirvana and an executive order signing ceremony only 1 1/2 days into his administration, it seems that gitmo – the worst place in the world – will remain open AND obama is going to reconsider the wisdom of those horrible bush military tribunals.
here is obama’s cover from ‘looking’ like he broke a promise:
“House Democrats are refusing to pay for President Barack Obama’s plan to relocate prisoners from the Guantanamo detention facility where enemy combatants are being held.
Obama has signed an executive order to close the facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, by early next year. But the Pentagon has yet to come up with a plan on where to put the 240 or so prisoners. Between 50-100 are likely to be sent to the United States.
No lawmaker wants the accused terrorists in their backyard.
House Democrats unveiled a $94.4 billion war funding bill Monday and it had no money for the relocation plan.”
hilarious. more obama and his deceptive ways!
we all know that obama owns the dems in congress – if he wanted to get the $$ from them to relocate terrorists, he could get it.
but the truth is he knew there was no way those terrorists could ever leave gitmo. he reads the daily threat assessments; he knows what really happened during those ‘torture’ sessions at gitmo and how the information saved many lives; he knows the people living at gitmo will kill us if given an opportunity to be free.
so he played his base – the lefties – for fools, pretending to make good on his promise to them to close gitmo and using the congress as his cover for not doing so. the end result is congress looks like they are simply protecting their communities while The One looks like he tried to keep a big promise to his base but ‘others’ thwarted him.
obama and his lies. when is his base gonna catch on?
micky says: “obama and his lies. when is his base gonna catch on? ”
I’m willing to bet they caught on a while back when he was already mantaining alot of Bushs security policies, but just dont have the humility to admit it.
This is why they’ve all been so pi$$y and whiney even in their victory.
Deep down inside they’re fuming and guys like us are a sounding board for their frustration.
To be fair there are many parts of that base that have already come out and voiced their opposition to what hes been doing but as we all know theres no way in hell the MSM is going to show us that side of things.
I’m going to part from mickey here and say they won’t catch on, at least not in the way that normal humans do. No reasonable person ever accused the lib rank and file of being intelligent. Instead, they’ll rationalize away all issues of which Dear Leader didn’t do what they desired, as if that’s what they expected him to do all along. Liberals lie. All the time. They lie.
This isn’t the only issue of which he’s pulled a bait and switch, and sites like DU and DKos are starting to comment on it, though most of them are too scared to wander too far off the reservation. As with virtually all libs, their need to conform to each other is their rop priority, and what they are told to believe outweighs any desire they might have had at some point in life to question what they’re hearing from their own. Paradox for them, fun for us. Win-win in the comedy department as we watch them twist and turn.
PenniePan says: Actually I think it’s just a few democratic congressmen who are trying to twart Barack’s closing of Guantanamo. Unfortunately many of these prisoners – probably all of them – have been tortured repeatedly and THIS is the main reason they don’t want these people in prison in this country – where their stories can emerge. In Gitmo they are mostly silenced. Mostly.
In an American prison their stories will be in the media rapidly. I then think we will find more than a few of these evil terrible horrible dangerous nasty frightening people are actually….innocent.
As far as the broken promise? No way. Gitmo will close because Barack will still make it happen. By either good old fashioned arm twisting with the democrats or by his new relationships with other heads of state and move them out of the country completely.
Pat says: Gitmo must be closed. Period. Other then the mastermind of 9/11 and a few others, the rest were in the wrong place at the wrong time or petty criminals and should not be called enemy combatents. Those people need to be sent home.
The saddest part about Gitmo is that many of those imprisoned there were just children who now are young adults maybe 20 or so years old. They have had no life and most likely indoctrinated now to hate us just like the older ones there.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/the-children-of-guantanamo-bay-480059.html
Guantanamo is Bush’s crime and must be made right.
micky says: Well Ted, your assement works well in that we’ll probably see denial come in more ways than one.
“In an American prison their stories will be in the media rapidly.”
These guys arent going to be with the general population, trust me.
Thats if they end up there at all.
>>micky said: Well Ted, your acessment works well in that we’ll probably see denial come in more ways than one.
You’re already seeing it in this thread with the “Blame America First” position that likely these were innocent victims and that they were children who were 12-15 years old when they were captured. Don’t even bother with them, they’re insane with hatred of the country and the Constitution. They’re the type who believe 9-11 was blowback for all the evil we’ve exported around the world. Of course, this evil the USA perpetuated for the most part started in 1953, ended in 1961, started again in 1969, ended in 1977, started again in 1981, ended in 1993, started again in 2001, and ended again in 2009. They’ve falsely convinced themselves they’re the smartest people in the room, so the one thing they won’t ever do is admit they were taken for a ride.
Look at it this way; you’ve already got posters here saying they hope the Gitmo prisoners talk to the media and say they were tortured. Now, for what reason would any reasonable person have to believe a group of terrorists who wanted to kill Americans? There isn’t, it’s to their advantage to lie about it. The only reason for individuals to believe them is they *want* to believe them because it fits their template of what they’ve already decided happenend. It would be like going to a prison here and asking the inmates if they did the crime or not; they’re all innocent according to them, right?.
And then al-Qaeda members determined to kill citizens of the “evil Satan” America were just “in the wrong place at the wrong time or petty criminals.” You can’t discuss issues with individuals who view things that way, they have no foundation in reality. But that’s Dear Leader’s base, a bunch of cult zombies.
These are people who hate God, hate Bush, hate Republicans, hate conservatives, hate capitalism, hate America,……. they just hate. If it wasn’t the above mentioned, they’d find something else to hate. If the Chicoms were to land boats on the Pacific coast to invade the country, they wouldn’t pick up a weapon to defend it, because in their eyes surely we had it coming. They really do believe if we’re nice to these people and mind our own business, they’ll leave us alone. That’s how kooky they are.
PenniePan says: @Ted
Pro-Obama folks are reluctant to criticize the President because they love him so much but criticizing him and holding him accountable will (in the long run) only make him a better President imo.
Closing Gitmo is not an option, it is a must, and Barack knows this.
Pat said: They have had no life and most likely indoctrinated now to hate us just like the older ones there.
They were indoctrinated into hating Americans long before we ever got to where they were. These people were in a war zone, participating with terrorists to kill American soldiers.
I’d much rather see them having no life, then see more Americans get slaughtered in their hands.
Kids my ass. Some of them may be young but in their world – they knew what they were doing. You can’t see them thru the lens of our existence, you have to look thru theirs. In a world where marriage at age 8 is considered acceptable, their frame-of-reference is completely different.
‘The saddest part about Gitmo is that many of those imprisoned there were just children who now are young adults maybe 20 or so years old.’
pat these so-called ‘children’ were NOT picked up on the soccer field, they were picked up on THE BATTLEFIELD with orders to kill your sorry butt and mine.
give me a break. THAT so annoys me.
Cindee says: The problem is that nobody wants them. Not even the places they once called home. We sent to the UK the obviously-innocent ones. But a lot of the people can’t go back because they’re either not wanted (they’ve been gone so long that they’re now suspected to be Manchurian Candidates) or likely to face execution.
Jared says: “We sent to the UK the obviously-innocent ones.”
They are all innocent because they have not been proven otherwise in a court of law.
micky says: All these assumptions that go to detainess spilling their story once exposed to the press is a bunch of crap.
These detainees are already interviewed on regular basis by the Red Cross and other human rights advocates that would have a decent case presented in heart beat if there was anything incriminating going on.
“They really do believe if we’re nice to these people and mind our own business, they’ll leave us alone. That’s how kooky they are.”
My favorite all time was the lib that told me they were nothing more than unruly children.
This crap all started right around 2002 leading up to the 04 elections. Thats when the moonbats decided they needed a platform to run on against the republicans. Right after 911 everyone was on board, everything was hunky dory, kumbaya, we are one.
What Ted says about the ingrained mindset is made evident in that there was no belief during the first couple of years after 911 that any of the crap they say now is true. In the candidates campaigns to gain office it was necessary to launch a rallying point, a focus of types to be placed against the republicans. Thats when the propoganda started flowing that Bush over hyped the threat from radical Islam and that UBL had planned 911 in direct corellation to hurt the Bush administration and that the anger whithin radical Islam had been created mostly on the part of the Bush administration and had little to do with any of the conflicts between us that go back decades. Not to mention that in Osama Bin Ladens “Letter to America” he states very clearly that 911 was launched due to the decades of western intervention across the planet. Then theres the fact that 911 took 5 years to plan before anyone even concieved the thought of Bush being on a presidential ticket.
But like Ted said, they dont let the facts get in the way.
They bought into the manufactured BDS around that time and havent let their fangs out of it yet. The conspiracy menatallity has snowballed and morphed into so many different variations and facets its not even funny. The menatllity was soon applied to anything and everything Bush did whether it was the failure on the states part to handle Katrina, his Nat. Guard service or how he wipes his butt.
BDS became an extreme sport to see who could out do who.
Jared says: BTW Nobody said anything about releasing the whole bunch of detainees. That’s a completely different matter than closing the base. I’d like them to go in small groups to military facilities personally until it can be sorted through. It’s been at a stand still too long. And Gitmo just represents too many bad things for too many people.
PenniePan says: Jared why would you want them to go to other military bases????? They would just be tortured there too!!!!!!! Other then the 3 9/11 conspirators, there is no concrete information on the rest of the detainees. We should release them and let them walk away. Then go after Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Rice for getting us into this mess in the first place.
micky says: “They are all innocent because they have not been proven otherwise in a court of law.”
Yup.
And its starting to look like Obamas next flip will be to go with the military tribunals after all.
Its not so much where we keep these guys at. Its the type of trial they’ll be recieving that actually matter most. Anyone who knows anything knows that Obama has already maintained that other Bush policy called “renditions”.
This means he can send them to just about any prison on the planet he wants, some of which are far less comfortable than Gitmo. Baghram AFB in Afghanistan is the one thats being highligted the most right now. He could send them to Egypt if he wants where the laws pertaining to interrogation compared to ours are a liberals nightmare.
Its the trials, not the prison that determines their fate. And right now its starting to look an awful lot like Obama is going to hold on to yet another Bush security policy by using the military tribunal instead of US civilian courts.
micky says: “there is no concrete information on the rest of the detainees. ”
Yes there is.
Whats being decided is which courts to present that evidence to.
And what makes you so sure that there isnt any ‘concrete information” on these guys ? Obviously theres enough to hold them.
Jared says: “Jared why would you want them to go to other military bases????? They would just be tortured there too!!!!!!! …We should release them and let them walk away.”
Pennie I don’t think turning Khaled Sheikh Mohammed loose on the world will generate any goodwill, especially if he kills a whole bunch of innocent people. And he will.
Look, lets not let our contempt for Bush and the criminality of his administration cause us to start acting stupid. Al Qaeda is not a joke, as any New Yorker will tell you.
What we are witnessing is called “reality”. It’s a term few neo-socialists are familiar with, until it hits them in the face. During the campaign Obama promised everything to everybody. Anyone who had really been paying attention knew he wouldn’t be able to keep most of these promises.
Gitmo may very well be closed, but I don’t think it will be in the time frame Obama wants. You see “reality” has set in. It’s easy to SAY “Let’s close Gitmo!” and all of the lovesick Obamaites swooned. Now, however, even the dems are realizing its going to be difficult. The best part is there has no evidence of torture at Gitmo. It’s all coming from the terrorists……….and the left. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Anyway, Pat you’ll have to find an article a little better than that if you want to use it as evidence of anything. It was filled with “allegedly” and “allegations” and was based on the accusations of a left wing Bush hater. However, in your world, I realize that’s enough, how sad. Perhaps you missed the stories of jihadists training children to be suicide bombers? They live in a different world. A world where children ban be taught to kill with bombs and guns. You see, that’s called “reality”, get it?
“Pro-Obama folks are reluctant to criticize the President because they love him so much but criticizing him and holding him accountable will (in the long run) only make him a better President imo.”
No, the Obamazombies are reluctant to criticize him because they are as infatuated with him like teenage girls are infatuated with the Jonas brothers. They are smitten, and anyone be damned who dare question Obama.
I hope he does close Gitmo. I can’t wait to see some of these terrorists settle in the northeast or California and then we’ll hear the squeals of the dems as they move into their neighborhoods.
Jared says: “And its starting to look like Obamas next flip will be to go with the military tribunals after all.”
Try reading the posts sometime. LOL.
“Jared why would you want them to go to other military bases????? They would just be tortured there too!!!!!!!”
Isn’t it telling how our resident neo-socialists are so willing to believe the terrrorists as long as it somehow embarasses Bush. I have a question Pennie, why would you be worried about them being tortured? Obama is in charge, right? He’s outlawed torture, right? Unless you just think our military are a bunch of torturers. That must be it.
Pathetic to the last.
Pat says: Jared
Just tell me whom among the detainees is actually al Qaeda, and I’ll gladly support your point.
Ken
Since the secrecy of the previous administration, we can only go on allegations supported by groups who have spoken to detainees and the reports of former detainees themselves as the article sites. Getting at the truth is more evidence for the need to dismantle Gitmo.
PenniePan says: Ken actually I think there are elements in our military (rogue elements) who take things too far, who can torture, who do torture. They have been taught to do this by virtue of their military training. They do this to pay back elements who they perceive as those who killed their comrades in war. Those in the military who may not participate would certainly not say anything about an extra slap or two. The detainees if placed in other military facilities would be in great danger.
micky says: “Try reading the posts sometime. LOL”
I read the post Jared. I was simply reiterating the point to contrast to your comment.
I brought this up here 1 or 2 days before it was ever mentioned in the post.
The mention of it was to point out that liberals have got it all wrong by focusing on Gitmo as some point of relevance when its really the trials that matter.
And once again I might mention that you’re doing the same crap again by going after sh*t that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.
You just cant help yourself, can you ?
I addressed you in a polite and congenial manner and yet you still find it necessary to show us all your a$$.
“The detainees if placed in other military facilities would be in great danger.”
Pure propoganda. The jihadists thank you. You also know, Pennie, that they are TRAINED to make these accusations. Does it not bother you that terrorists who want nothing more than to kill Americans are counting on YOU to help them??
It’s time to join the grown ups in the real world.
“Since the secrecy of the previous administration, we can only go on allegations supported by groups who have spoken to detainees and the reports of former detainees themselves as the article sites.”
Please refer to my post above on how these prisoners have been trained to make such accusations. You’re playing right into their hands. How fortunate for them to have such wonderful allies in America.
Jared says: Micky now you imply that Kate got the idea for her post from your comment of a day or 2 ago? Oh please. Be more of a victim if that’s possible. LOL.
Pat imo it’s too late to determine that. That should have been charged at arraignment. Unfortunately, the Bush administration had a policy of lock em up, torture them, then ask questions later. That makes it impossible, at this point, to have anything resembling normal American criminal jurisprudence with the remaining detainees.
So the Obama administration, has a tough plan to work out. We MUST close Gitmo, we must get to the bottom of the torture issues there, but we also must protect the country. I think most of these people are probably low level criminals who were making $$ by fighting for the taliban – they were dispensible to them.
But, personally, I say don’t take chances:
Return them to Bagram.
Release them.
Have Special Operations and CIA follow them, and if there are any indications of regrouping, then kill them and move on.
Because of the illegal activities of the Bush administration, they should be allowed to have freedom again. But if they muck it up by threatening us, they should become dispensible to us too.
micky says: “Micky now you imply that Kate got the idea for her post from your comment of a day or 2 ago? Oh please. Be more of a victim if that’s possible. LOL.”
Nope. That’s your deduction, not mine. I simply made the point as to why I brought it up and why it deserves more attention than closing any facility does.
Once again, you’re of topic and engaging in an attack on elements of my person rather than my assessment that the trials will have more impact on the well being of these creeps that you care so much about.
“So the Obama administration, has a tough plan to work out. ”
They told you all they had it worked out during the campaign. but now instead of holding him to task for flipping or not knowing what the hell he was talking about we see these obfuscating sentiments that go to “oh, he’s got a tough plan to work out”
No, its not tough. Its easy. he’s going to maintain all of Bushs security policies because he knows that hes clueless and should just go with the proven recipe that kept us safe for 7 1/2 years.
Gitmo will not close, military tribunals will be in order.
If Gitmo closes, it wont make a bit of difference simply due to the fact that he can send them to any number of places in addition to the economy not looking like a guaranteed success and if he fails on the GWOT he knows there will never be a second term for him.
“We MUST close Gitmo, we must get to the bottom of the torture issues there”
Closing Gitmo is irrelevant to real security or treatment of detainees. it only goes to the wishs you have to stain the Bush administration.
Only if the freedom of information requests are honored and the remainder of the memos are made public will we ever know. And as it seems right now the Messiah got himself in a bind because more than likely all these methods were approved by a majority of the left as well, ask Nancy.
I notice the left isn’t half as concerned with the trails as they are with closing Gitmo. That’s more than likely because the trials will be under the Obama admin. and as we all know why worry about that since “the one” can do no wrong.
Its the trails that will ultimately have more effect on the future and treatment of these men than any few years in prison will
“Return them to Bagram.
Release them.
Have Special Operations and CIA follow them, and if there are any indications of regrouping, then kill them and move on.”
Why would Baghram be any different than what you accuse Gitmo of being ?
You say you dont want to take any chances ? Yea right. And lets pray our a$$es off that they dont escape surveillance and go on to murder again like the ones who’ve already been released.
“Because of the illegal activities of the Bush administration, they should be allowed to have freedom again. But if they muck it up by threatening us, they should become dispensible to us too.”
First of all, releasing them in the states is out of the question. Secondly theres a 50/50 chance they would be killed by their own for suspicion of leaking info or spying. Thirdly , some of the countries they are citizens to would put them on trial as well for the crimes they’ve commited.
Most of them would not have freedom and would more than likely meet up with death, prison or torture by their own
You have no proof of the illegalities you hold against Bush and claim he commited (vague as it is)yet you’re willing to grant the benefit of the doubt to combatants captured in war and risk that they succeed in killing more ?
Yea, lets wait and see if they threaten us, maybe with 3000 more dead Americans ?
Priceless
Jared says: Micky, always the victim. Forget anything else you say because it’s always regurgitated words from Ted or Ken. I can’t ever get past your “you’re picking on me!”
>>Jared said: “They are all innocent because they have not been proven otherwise in a court of law.”
and
>> Jared said: “… contempt for Bush and the criminality of his administration … Because of the illegal activities of the Bush administration…”
Terrorists are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Bush and administration is guilty without even having any charges brought up against him.
Pretty much sums up the whole lib mantra built upon the only foundation they know; hypocracy.
PenniePan says: @ Jared
“Have Special Operations and CIA follow them, and if there are any indications of regrouping, then kill them and move on.”
Why would we become like the Bush administration? 9/11 didn’t give this country carte blanc to do what ever we want. These people have rights Jared, rights that the Bushies took away from them. We owe them something. We need to help them live somewhere free of torture and prisons.
micky says: Jared.
You’re just a pathetic loser who cant make a point unless its pulled out of your rump and then its invalid anyway half the time because its just simply not true.
No ones claiming to be a victim of anything here and you sure as hell are not capable enough to victimize me. If anything I’ve pointed out how you’re a victim of your own idiocy and inability to break from your pedantic attacks on the most minute issue you can find whithin someones conduct.
This is made evident by you not being able to respond to me on anything thats relevant to the topic as much as engage you in relevant and mannerly fashion.
If anyone runs around whining there butts off about being victims I would have to say without a doubt its you and your party. Without victimization of yourselves and everything elese you all wouldnt even have a purpose in life
You painted everyone in the world as victim of something but forgot that us conservatives dont buy into that crap and you’ll have a hell of time ever convincing us were a victim of anything other than your partys persistent nagging to the point that you’re saying you’re a victim of our claiming were victims.
Pathetic.
Notice that Ted just repeated pretty much what I said above relating to your contempt for Bush.
Will you approach him on this ? Not that I care about that but its always nice when you have a memeber of the same belief that confirms what you say as opposed to you having to set your own straight as you did with Pennie.
Just goes to show that amongst yourselves your hatred is so out of control you couldnt get a coordinated message out if your miserable lives depended on it.
Still, the level of “lack of dissonance” is amazing as you all keep worrying about whether Gitmo will close or not.
Why is it so important that Gitmo close ?
I’ll tell you why. Because you cant stand having it rubbed in your faces that he lied to you. Hes screwing you all at every expedient opportunity he can find and you need Gitmo to close so you can all vindicate yourselves in your blind idiotic support for whats turned out to be your worst nightmare.
Hes turning out to be a real schmuck, isnt he ?
Just to pi$$ you off, I’m gonna repeat myself again.
Gitmo will not close and it doesnt matter which facility we send them to and they will be given military tribunals. Simply because the odds are against you. Obama has maintained almost every other Bush security policy and he will continue to do so.
Face it.
But you guys go ahead, keep harping on Gitmo if thats what makes you feel useful
We should release them and let them walk away.
And just where do we release them? Bagram as Jared suggests? Have CIA/Special Ops follow them? Each one of them? We don’t have that kind of manpower…
No one wants them. Not one country has stepped forward and said that they would take any of them. Those prisoners that we have released? 12 of them went on to become homicide bombers, killing innocent people for their “cause”.
Just tell me whom among the detainees is actually al Qaeda, and I’ll gladly support your point.
Khaled Sheik Mohammed – self-confessed mastermind of 9/11 = al Qaeda. All the others? Fighting alongside the Taliban – which is supported by Iran which provides funding to al Qaeda. Fighting alongside al Qaeda in Iraq.
They are all al Qaeda. You can’t say it’s a matter of degrees. Either you are a terrorist or you aren’t. There is no halfway with this. As someone else earlier said, just ask a New Yorker.
Or someone who worked at the Pentagon. Or someone who lived near Shanksville, PA. Or me. In memory of Heather Lee Smith, Flight 11.
micky says: “Why would we become like the Bush administration? 9/11 didn’t give this country carte blanc to do what ever we want. These people have rights Jared, rights that the Bushies took away from them. We owe them something. We need to help them live somewhere free of torture and prisons.”
Whoo hoo hoo hoo hoo !
Ha ha ha ha ha ha !
micky says: What are you crying about Pennie ? Jared wants to cut em loose as it is !!
PenniePan says: Micky as usual, you act like the village idiot of the blog. Learn to read for content and then talk to me.
Rope says: Maybe they can all move in with Jared and Penni.
Cougar says: “These are people who hate God, hate Bush, hate Republicans, hate conservatives, hate capitalism, hate America,……. they just hate.”
Ted sounds to me like you’ve got a “hate thing” going on yourself.
These people have rights Jared, rights that the Bushies took away from them. We owe them something. We need to help them live somewhere free of torture and prisons.
What alternate reality do you live in PenniePan? Sweet jesus.
These people gave away their rights when they tried to kill American soldiers. We owe them nothing.
So we need to help them live somewhere…where exactly? As I said earlier, not one country wants any of them – for good reason. Because everyone knows they are terrorists who, if released, will still pursue their primary mission – killing innocent people, especially Americans.
If you feel this strongly about giving these criminals a free life with access to all the rights given to American citizens – then you take them into your home.
Jeremy says: Just a comment to my fellow liberals on this thread: If president Obama starts diluting the promises he made during his campagning regarding particularly the human rights at Gitmo, the bitterness and the resentment towards him will become as deep and profound as the hope that he has created. This is a very big issue to many of us who voted for him.
micky says: Micky as usual, you act like the village idiot of the blog. Learn to read for content and then talk to me.”
Oop, here come the names again.
You tell me to read for content after you tell Jared these people should live free when he just said he would free them himself .
Trust me, if any idiotic statements have been made here you’ve taken the best ones already.
What part did you miss where myself and others said that if they were set free they’d probably do worse than where they’re at now ? HUH?
Read for content…
pfft.
In addition, your little in house squabbling with him makes my point that one hand doesnt know what the others doing nor do they care as long as they hate Bush.
Gitmo has Bush attached to it as well as the tribunals did when they were his idea and you guys were all over it like rabid lemmings and now that Obama is attached to tribunals and Gitmo being open you guys dont know where you’re coming from and you sure as hell arent going after him with the same venom as you did with Bush.
Arent you appalled at the thought of him doing just what Bush did ? C’mon, spit it out, be honest.
You cant. And you wont because its just too damn incriminating if you
micky says: “Pro-Obama folks are reluctant to criticize the President because they love him so much but criticizing him and holding him accountable will (in the long run) only make him a better President imo.”
“If president Obama starts diluting the promises he made during his campagning regarding particularly the human rights at Gitmo, the bitterness and the resentment towards him will become as deep and profound as the hope that he has created. This is a very big issue to many of us who voted for him.”
Jeremy, I hope its you thats right
PenniePan says: Ahahaha Micky. Do you actually think what YOU do is anything less then the namecalling? You are a baiter, and agitator, a chronic victim that likes to sling hash but can’t handle the poke in the eye. In house fighting? No, clarification. Something you know nothing about because either you steal other people’s comments and morph them into your own or people here can’t stand getting into a conversation with you. Your like a conservative troll, no substance just bluster!
“We should release them and let them walk away.”
Actually Pennie, we should have shot them on the battlefield and called it a day. Then we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.
micky says: “Ahahaha Micky. Do you actually think what YOU do is anything less then the namecalling?”
Thats not the point.
The point is that as much as I try to set an example its always you and company who faol like bunch of compulsive children.
Its cool.
If you somehow think you’ve made one valid point then you go on performing your mental masturbation that keeps you comfy in the face of all that you cant and wont admit.
Were all watching and we know that deep down inside you’re telling yourself what a schmuck Obama is.
At least Jeremy is not as delusional as to think that the party will go on kissing his a$$ regardless of how bad a f*ck up he is.
I believe him. It wont be the first time the left has eaten its own. Once the media decides to start a campign based on his constant betrayals, hes history.
Substance ? coming from you ?
Thats like saying you screw in the name of virginity.
“people here can’t stand getting into a conversation with you.”
Psst, wake up.
I dont see anyone besides your compadres willing to talk to you. And thats only when they have to set you straight like Jared did right here where he basically called you “STUPID”
“Look, lets not let our contempt for Bush and the criminality of his administration cause us to start acting stupid. ”
And as much as it pains me hes right in the sense that you shouldnt let your BDS get in the way of the fact that these guys are not to be trusted
PenniePan says: “Thats not the point.”
Well yes it IS the point little boy! You’re just a nasty little boy who is the eternal victim.
kate said: now it’s you that’s baiting. consider this a warning.
PenniePan says: Micky jsut know that I think you are pathetically wrong. You and Kris and Kate and the others here are completely overreacting to a group of people who are innocent by virtue of the fact that nothing has been proven about them. They are just being held against their will in a foreign country’s prison waiting for the next torture session. You are a small man who could never handle such treatment. You can’t even handle rough conversations on a blog without crying to momma.
micky says: And walla ! You make my point again with flying colors.
How the hell could I be a victim of such complete idiocy ?
The more you try to turn this around and paint me as some kind of cry baby the more ridiculous you look in the face of the many times I’ve tried to engage you in a decent conversation.
You’re a victim of yourself in the classic context of the traditional guilty liberal.
You’re your own worst enemy to the point that one of you has you so blinded you cant even see it.
You’re the woosy cry babies that all nicknamed me the “bully”.
Remeber ? I thought it was hilarious that challenging you to answer pertinent questions was considered bullying and so you pop corn farted this crap out your butt that I was a victim.
Dont flatter yourself, please.
G’night, cant say I didnt try. MUAH !!!
Kate said: enough of the pointless arguing and inappropriate comments for gosh sakes!
micky says: “You are a small man who could never handle such treatment. You can’t even handle rough conversations on a blog without crying to momma.”
You know nothing about me.
Yet like the detainees you seem to have this ability to know things that no human could possibly know.
“You and Kris and Kate and the others here are completely overreacting to a group of people who are innocent by virtue of the fact that nothing has been proven about them”
If you could extend this sentiment to Bush then someone might take you seriously.
You’re just flapping your gums to be heard or the biggest hypocrit in the world, or both.
How can you apply one standard to one man and a different one to another and live with yourself ?
Do you and the left have any proof to the accusations you all launched against Bush ? NO !!!!!!!
As a matter of fact all your accusations have been debunked and still to this day you sick pathetic bastards keep repeating them over and over and over.
Bush loves his country, he loves you, he cares about you and your family and did everything he could to protect your lives and what thanks does he get ???
You would rather give more consideration to these punk bitches who never dream of even allowing a woman like you to run your yap the way you do.
You make me sick.
Meathead says: Obama won’t be closing Gitmo within the year. He knows what that would mean to our enemies and to the country’s confidence in fighting terrorism. He can say all the things you want to hear but it ain’t gonna happen. All of you leftists need to get a clue about just how dangerous terrorism is to you personally and the kind of message this sends to them when our own country and our own CinC gives the appearance of weakness because that’s what it says to close Gitmo. Also y’all have no idea what you are talking about either. Unfortunately, I have come face to face with terrorists over there and if they thought their leadership wanted them to, they’d behead their own mother without blinking an eye. Get that in your heads and stop the foolishness.
Marsha says: Hey Micky just wondering if you could avoid the “masterbation” language and the really nice mental images of “pop corn farted this crap out your butt” talk around here? It might make you feel better but it’s really a lousy thing to have to read over and does not help support the arguments made in the post.
PenniePan we are all painfully aware that you are an antagonistically bitter woman who can never stop with the insults but if you could give your feud and baiting of Micky a rest that would be helpful for the mental health of all of us.
I am no prude and appreciate a “lively and colorful” conversation myself but think really trashy language like what happened here is unacceptable on a blog like this. Show some class and respect please. There are rules here and though nobody appointed me the hall monitor, I am assuming the position at least until Kate emails me and tells me to never mind, free speech and all that. Now if only I had a trap door…. or a supersoaker…. 😛
Joy says: I think the President will close Guantonomo. I think the Democrats in congress are worried about beign reelected so they have temporarily gone against Barack but we all know they need him to be reelected so they’ll figure something out. The President would never break this promise because he knows how important it is to us who worked for him to get him elected. You peole fight a lot on this blog.
micky says: What ?
Jeez, WTF ? I’m just cruising along conversing on topic, everything was cool, and out of nowhere Jared knocks my reading, Pennie calls me the village idiot and I get scolded ?
Gimme a break.
Mango says: This news does not surprise me. I wonder what Jack Bauer has to say about this.
micky says: Bottom line is this.
Myself and the others on this thread who actually have a clue have made it abundantly clear with relevant sources and facts that more than likely Gitmo will not close, military tribunals will be used and it all compounds onto the stack of broken promises made by this sorry excuse for a president.
The libs cant stand it and they’re coming unhinged.
Marsha, I stand by my analogies and metaphors as the most fitting descriptions of the actions I’m describing. Some only deserve so much respect but it is unfair that others have to witness it.
I’ll work on it. 🙂
micky says: Mango.
Did you see Jack chew out Janine Garafolo 2 weeks ago ?
That scene was classic.
Marsha says: Micky “Some only deserve so much respect…”
Meh. I was referring to the fact that this is Kate’s blog and out of respect for HER and her religious feelings things should be toned down. Everybody else here can defend themselves.
Mango Jack would have dropped them where they stood. No Gitmo needed!
Eddie says: Imo closing the torture chambers at Gauntanimo was a key campaign promise of Barack Obama. He can’t afford to break it because if the constituancy that put him in office losses confidence in him, he can kiss support from us on all his other stuff goodbyeee. He’s the president he can make stuff happen if he wants to no matter what congress does.
lisab says: they have to clear out gitmo soon …
otherwise there will be no room in there for obama’s political prisoners
…a group of people who are innocent by virtue of the fact that nothing has been proven about them. They are just being held against their will in a foreign country’s prison waiting for the next torture session.
PenniPan – please … prove it. Provide verfiable sources for your claims. You keep saying they are all tortured all the time. Prove it.
These people are innocent of nothing. They are trained from birth to hate Americans – what about that isn’t clear to you? They were captured in a war zone, working with the Taliban and al Qaeda. These aren’t cases of wrong place/wrong time.
These are cases of terrorists plotting to murder American soldiers.
And again, I ask you – what would you do with them? Where would you send them?
PenniePan says: Kris there are lots of places to put those who need to be locked away. Which is like 3 or so? The rest there is no evidence to prosecute or they would have by now. Some have been lanquishing there for 7 years! Send them to the Middle East if Americans don’t want them. Some one will take them, maybe not publically, but they will take them. Send them somewhere so they can live.
micky says: Marsha, as I said, some only deserve so much respect. That also applies to the respect Kate deserves which is why I said I’ll work on it but I’m also allowed (I hope) to not have to take any crap off of people I repeatedly try to engage in a civil tone.
What were seeing now is liberals go thru the same arguments and ask the same questions that led us conservatives to retain the policies of tribunals and keeping Gitmo open.
Some dont seem to want to accept the fact that by us not returning them to the middle east or point of origin we are actually doing the right and humane thing. Instead their hatred for anything Bush keeps them repeating the same “non solution” over and over again.
What we see are these statements based on blind uninformed hope like “Some one will take them” and “Send them somewhere so they can live” and yet without a clear destination that would be safe for them they still keep repeating themselves. Its like they almost hope something bad will happen to these detainees just so they can have more crap to sling at the Bush administration. I really dont think they care about anyones freedom. Even if its Obama who authorizes their relaase, should anything happen to them, it’ll be Bushs fault for locking them up in the first place. Typical 60s mentallity, tear down whats in place with no clear replacement.
Its been explained time and time again on this thread what would happen to these guys depending on where they would be sent and they still wont accept the fact that they are being held for their own safety. And lets not forget that the majority of those that were supposedly innocent did infact return to the field to kill Americans again.
They dont care about anything but trashing Bush and saving face.
These are the same people who support Hamas and the Palestinians, Iran, Hezzbolla and other radical Isamic groupos that strangely enough do not honor any of the values they stand in favor of. They treat women like animals, kill those for being gay, oppress just about every freedom that liberals cry about. You’d think they would hate these people more than they do any republican administration that at least has some values in common with them but no, you dont see that. Because they’re all bunch of hateful spiteful little children who could care less about anything other than destroying the face of a good man and those who support him.
They dont even have a plan as to what to do with these prisoners, as long as its not Bushs plan, they know that much
Send them to the Middle East if Americans don’t want them.
Are you being deliberately obtuse, PenniePan? It’s not that Americans don’t want them – which I find an amusing statement coming from someone who wants them to “live” yet acknowledges that we don’t want them here. Why should America unleash a bunch of terrorists who were captured trying to kill Americans.
There isn’t one country anywhere who would agree to take them – even the “non value” ones you seem to believe are the majority of the Gitmo population.
I also have to laugh that you just want to send them back where they came from, so they can live. What kind of life do you think they’ll have? If we did that, they’d either become homicide bombers in less than a month (as most of those we have released have done already) or they’d be killed as traitors to their cause for coming home 18 pounds heavier than when they left.
The Middle East only wants them for one thing – cannon fodder. After several years getting 3 square meals a day, all the religious praying time they could ask for and better healthcare than you and I get…what makes you think they want to go back where they came from?
And again, I ask you – quite reasonably – to provide hard evidence that there are only 3 critical detainees at Gitmo. You’ve stated several times that they are all being tortured – prove it.
PenniePan says: Kris keep in mind the prisoners have been there since 2002. There have been many reports from former military and prisoners who were released and spoke through attorneys and the IRC about abuses involving sexual misconduct, dietary, religion by both our military and CIA interrogators. There are pages and pages in google on this topic. Here are just 4 that discuss it:
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/actnow/26707/gitmo_s_shame
http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/3401
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-worthington/seven-years-of-guantanamo_b_156903.html
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/mar2005/rums-m08.shtml
micky says: Those links offer no proof but simply allegations made by the prisoners/hearsay which is what they’re supposed to do.
Before you call any of the things that did happen to them “torture” you first have set down a base description of what defines torture.
Seems awfully funny that they would complain about dietary torture and yet go on hunger strikes or that these inmates have retained pro bono representation instead of fed supplied defense.
Agenda ?
PenniePan says: “Those links offer no proof but simply allegations made by the prisoners/hearsay which is what they’re supposed to do.”
Micky I am not a CIA agent and wasn’t there and neither were you. We all get our information from interviews, attorneys, reporters and any limited information provided by the gov’t.
Butt out of my conversation about this with Kris.
Kris I am aware for every so-called liberal source providing information to you that you can provide a right winger source. If this doesn’t convince you, and I am sure it will not, I believe we must agree to disagree about torture at Guantanamo.
PenniePan: I believe it would be more accurate to say that we will have to agree to disagree on just about everything political.
World Socialist Web Site.
Yeah, there’s a reliable source. :rollseyes:
What, you couldn’t find one on Indymedia?
Holy Moley!
PenniePan says: Ted oh come on. There is no impartial news site any more. Ever cited “Right Wing News?” That’s what I thought.
Hold on, I’m still checking Indymedia. Certainly if there’s anything to this they, of all people, will be all over it. How many anarchists does it take to form a consensus that perhaps it’s time to reach a decision?
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