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Dr. Helen had a reader ask her an interesting question today:
Dear Dr. Helen,
I am 47 years old, never married (not gay) and have very mixed feeling about the notion of being married someday. I have known-socially-many women in my years, and have found many of them striking and engaging, strictly from a character point of view. Yes, many were attractive physically, but that is neither here nor there. I hold the state of marriage in very high regard and have two parents who held high standards to thank for that. But I am not attracted to the thought of being married. I am not against it at all (sometimes I daydream about it); it is just not a priority in my life and much as I would welcome a spectacular woman into my life, I don’t believe it to be very likely.
Here’s my question: Why do so many women find single men to be a social cancer? I am forever surrounded by married women who look at me like I’m a freak who needs to be “bagged and tagged.” What is it about single men that makes married women (never men!) interrogate us as to our continued bachelorhood and seeming refusal to “settle down?”
I will confess to you that most women scare the crap out of me. Sir Compton MacKenzie knew what he was talking about when he said, “Women do not find it difficult nowadays to behave like men, but they often find it extremely difficult to behave like gentlemen.” The female of the species is deadlier than the male. Hell hath no fury…you get the idea.
I know I am not a male chauvinist pig. My mother made an effort to bring me up right. I have known several women, personally, who held position of power and did so with genuine class and integrity. My father made the effort to marry a woman who was, to say the least, not common.
But I am somehow not attracted to being in an intimate relationship with a member of a group of people (here comes the Freudian slip!) who seem to regard me as an accessory. Most women I know want children, but not a husband. They merely see a husband as an accessory, like a GPS, to make having a family a lot less burdensome. I have known too many women who so ulcerate in their desire to validate their uterus that they marry morons who ruin their lives. But I digress.
What is it about being married that makes women find single men so intolerable? You may make of this what you like, but I know I am not alone in my feelings. I would welcome the chance to know how you and your readership feel about the topic.
Dr. Helen’s analysis was interesting, but I respectfully disagree. She says that the reason women may shun single older men boils down to two main reasons: projection of their feelings on being older and single; and insecurity, that women are threatened by those men.
When women look at a man who is in his forties or fifties, a lot of things automatically go through their minds. To us, it shows a lot of issues and not very many positives. It may be a personal choice, but women are immediately going to start asking questions. Why is it that this man is unwilling to settle down and commit to someone? When you’re talking about a single man, it isn’t just about marriage. In today’s society, long-term committed relationships are just as readily accepted as marriages are. So it isn’t even necessarily a question of marriage, but of what is this guy’s problem that he’s unwilling and/or unable to commit to a woman? To women, it indicates a lot of problems: immaturity, avoidance of responsibility, fear of commitment.
The man who wrote the letter to Dr. Helen sounds to me like he just got seriously burned sometime in his life, and is keeping women at an arm’s length to protect himself (avoidance + fear of commitment = single 47-year-old). These quotes say it all:
I will confess to you that most women scare the crap out of me.
…
But I am somehow not attracted to being in an intimate relationship with a member of a group of people (here comes the Freudian slip!) who seem to regard me as an accessory. Most women I know want children, but not a husband. They merely see a husband as an accessory, like a GPS, to make having a family a lot less burdensome. I have known too many women who so ulcerate in their desire to validate their uterus that they marry morons who ruin their lives. But I digress.
I personally think that’s a large part of the reason that many of these older men stay single: at some point in their lives, they were hurt, and badly, by some stupid bitch and have not been able to let those feelings go. So they keep all romantic interaction with women at surface level only, and tell themselves that they just don’t want to get married.
And for the ones who didn’t have any kind of relationship trauma, and just don’t want to settle down? That doesn’t make him any more appealing! Women are still going to look at him like he’s a little bit odd, and are likely to think that immaturity and an unwillingness to grow up are why this guy wants to be perpetually single. Let’s face it: humans are by and large monogamous creatures. Most of us want relationships; we want companionship and love. So when someone says they are completely fine without it, it comes off as more than a little bit strange (especially when the man is painting women as the enemy!).
Then you have the fifty-year-old single guy who acts like he’s still twenty-one. Let me tell you right now, these guys are creepy. You see them at any club, trying to dance with some young girl with X’s on her hands, and you just shudder. I’ve even been one of those girls who has had some older man try to pick me up when I was under 21. That’s just creepy. By the time you’re in your forties and fifties, picking girls up at clubs, sleeping around, and living a bachelor lifestyle like you’re in your twenties is just not OK. That indicates some severe issues in my book, some definite issues with growing up (think Will Ferrell in Wedding Crashers — creepy!).
To be honest, I don’t know why it is there are men — or women — who choose to be single so late in life. I don’t understand it. It is, of course, completely their choice and if it makes them happy, then good for them. But I know that while I enjoy Sex and the City, I always shudder a little bit at the prospect of being a Carrie or a Samantha, perpetually single into my forties and in Samantha’s case, her fifties! When you get to that stage in life, I would think you’d be mature enough to be past wanting to go bar-hopping with your friends and sleeping with random men constantly. And to me, being single into your forties and fifties indicates, more than anything else, a lack of maturity and a fear of commitment.
Does that mean single men who are older deserve such harsh treatment as this man describes? No. (But I have to wonder if the women he speaks of are being as harsh as he says, or if he feels some insecurity about his situation and is a little bit oversensitive.) People are free to live their lives as they see fit, and if living your entire life unattached is what you desire, then there’s nothing wrong with that. There really isn’t. My biggest worry would be that, when I was older and facing death, I’d look back and regret that I hadn’t found someone to share my life with. But I guess for some people, both women and men, that simply isn’t an issue for them. And that’s OK. But you will have to accept that eschewing commitment at that age puts you in a very small minority, and most people just don’t know what to think or expect.
And if anyone tries to grill you on your singlehood, my advice would be this. Address the situation politely, and then change the subject. Single or not, it’s extremely rude for someone to interrogate another person about the details of their love life. If they keep pushing, then nicely but firmly tell them to drop it. Just because you’re older and single doesn’t mean you don’t deserve respect.
Hat Tip: Melissa Clouthier
Shannon in AZ says: I’m 44 and have been single all my life. I call the shots. If I get married to a woman, the woman ends up calling all the shots and the law sides with the woman regardless of what happens. Rachel Lucas understands quite well as a woman why us men stay single and she is a rarity among women. Most woman can’t figure it out because they don’t want to believe that so much is on their side.
docjim505 says: Pushing 40 and until recently single. Why? Fat and ugly. Thanks to dieting and exercize, I’m now merely pudgy and ugly… and fortunate enough to find a wonderful woman with bad eyesight and low standards.
I can understand why some men are marriage-averse. We all know too many guys out there who have been burned and are living in a lousy appartment while they pay alimony / child support to the harpy who continues to pluck their wallet if not their heart. There’s that little voice in most men’s heads that says, “You WANT to take that kind of a chance??? Try Russian Roulette with a 1911 if you want the thrill of taking a risk. It would be safer.”
To the men who have found the Right Woman… Congratulations. Best wishes for a lifetime of happiness with her. Now, how did you do it??? Is there some sort of test that can be administered (either professionally or over-the-counter) that will tell us whether we’ve found Mrs. Right, Miss Right Now, or give it a miss and run for your life?
Bildo says: Melissa, I find it very interesting that if a man simply hasn’t found the person he wants to spend the rest of his life with that it somehow equals a “fear of commitment”. That’s a very, very shallow point of view. For the record, I’m 39, single, successful, decent looking, and I don’t have any personality flaws (except for reading blogs first thing in the morning).
Your calling it a “lack of maturity” is just pathetic. How in the world could you come to that conclusion? How many people do you know that jumped into marriage with someone that they are totally incompatible with just so they could be married? About a dozen of my friends that got married right after college were divorced within five years, a couple of them twice. Now THAT is a lack of maturity.
Yes, if you’re single in your 40’s, then it’s not a question of if you’ve been burned, we all have. I think that it’s the exact opposite of what you are describing though. I’ve learned from those experiences. I keep looking, but since I don’t see marriage as a temporary situation, I refuse to settle for someone with whom I can’t spend the rest of my life. That isn’t a lack of maturity. It’s just the opposite.
It might behoove you to at least talk to a man who’s still single in his 40’s before categorizing them all into your neat little framework, especially since your neat little framework is completely wrong.
steve innamorati says: the only reason i am not married is because i am so vein i do not want to be married to a woman who goes from being fit and healthy looking like me, to a fat blimp who is not the woman i met in the first place. what is wrong with that?
steve innamorati says: maybe i should lowwer my standaeds and become a fat middle aged lazy man like the rest of the population. the problem is i would rather be alone than resort to that. how low can you go before you give in to societys,s expectations?
Jesse says: I’m in a similar situation. I’m not as old (27), but have no female prospects anywhere on the horizon and have never really had a serious girlfriend (the sexual relationships I manage to have are few and far between and usually involve a hookup from the bar or a friend with benefits, neither being the ideal situation). My problem isn’t a fear of commitment. Although at the moment I’m not financially capable of getting married, much less providing for a family, but I think about it all the time. I can’t wait to be a father and a husband, because I know I’ll make a damn good one of each.
My “problem” lies in an inability to settle…I don’t mean settling down, I mean settling for a lesser mate than I deserve. My friends all say I have very high standards. I say you’re damn right I have high standards. I know I’m a good catch…I’m smart, work two jobs, have a lot of character and morals, I love kids, I’m fun to be around, and not all that horrible to look at. I’m just not one of those people who hates the idea of being alone so badly that they’ll spend six months dating somebody they can barely stand just for the sake of being able to say they’re in a relationship. I have buddies that will end a crappy relationship, and within a week they’re already meeting girls online, talking on the phone to different girls, etc., trying to find somebody to be with. So they’ll go from barely knowing a girl to seriously dating her within like two weeks…four or five months go by, he’s miserable because he doesn’t really like her, but doesn’t break up with her because he’d rather be in a relationship like that than have no relationship at all, and that’s a compromise I’m not willing to make.
My point to all this is, I think that a lot of people (especially women) look at an older, single man like he just farted in church because they simply cannot fathom the idea of not having somebody, ANYBODY, in their lives. Perhaps my mentality comes from growing up in a small town where everybody knows everybody, but I pretty much refuse to settle down with any women in my area because I KNOW them all…I know they’ve given it up all over town…I know most of them have one or two illigitimate kids…I know most of them aren’t aware of anything else in this world other than American Idol, The Real World, tanning beds, and Prada bags. If that’s all that’s going to be available to me until I finally get the money/nerve to leave this town, then I’ll just kindly say “no thank you”.
jclark says: Cassy you understand the dilemma. Boys of the last 20 years have watched closely their father’s destruction in divorces and they want nothing to do with it. It took a generation of feminized family court policies bent on destroying fathers that has pushed this. My brother at 46 just got married; I am divorced and recently re-married ( with air-tight pre-nup).
There must be radical change in the culture that demonizes men (like “deadbeat” applied across the board to divorced dads). The existing family court system has to be uprooted as it financially punishes men while seperating them from thier children. We will see fewer and fewer men willing to enter into marriage knowing if it falls apart (80% of divorces are filed by women) they can look forward to their lives being destroyed.
WayneB says: Obviously, I don’t know how often you read Helen, but the whole “men choosing to remain single” issue is a common theme over there, and typically it’s for the reasons Shannon in AZ laid out – specifically, fear that they will become non-custodial parents whose ex is poisoning the children’s’ minds while sucking their bank accounts dry.
I R A Darth Aggie says: I don’t know why it is there are men — or women — who choose to be single so late in life.
Being 45, I’ve learned – and you can file me in the “bitter” category if you like – that no one who is not my child can make me happy. But they can surely visit misery upon me.
A divorced acquaintance of mine told me that she thought I was lucky, and made the right choice. I could have children, and be divorced and paying child support and alimony. My ex could be wispering poisonous things about me into the ears of my children, or worse, accusing me of child abuse to a case worker.
I don’t think that it’s men who have the “fear of commitment” when it’s a majority of women who initiate the breakup. If men are afraid, figuratively, it is in the legal sense.
Rickvid in Seattle says: Broadly attributing a lack of marriage after 35ish to “fear of commitment” is like saying caution crossing a busy road stems from fear of air pollution.
Been married, now divorced (quite amicably), no kids. Nope, not fear of commitment, rather respect for the institution and the spectrum of support required to make marriage a success.
However, yes, older geezers hanging at night clubs chasing the younger girls is creepy. Of course, here in Seattle, the chubby balding guy with his thinning long hair pulled back, wearing sandals and wool socks sporting his Obama button sipping on his double shot half-caf machitto supremo reading the Utne Reader while waiting for the bus to go to his little cube and spend the day reading the DU and Kos, never really left his childhood anyhow.
Benrig says: Cassie–
I love reading your blog and normally I don’t comment, but, well, here I am.
“…but of what is this guy’s problem that he’s unwilling and/or unable to commit to a woman?”
I’d like to venture that the problem could be….women. Women are difficult for men to understand, usually. They’re programmed different. And where is it written that men HAVE to commit to a woman sometime in their life, or else they’re just ‘insecure’ or ‘immature’. That’s a pathetic argument, and as another commenter pointed out, there is a LOT more immaturity involved with jumping into marriages at age 16 than being an old single fart at age 57. I have known a lot of women in my life. Some were wonderful human beings. Some were lying, two-faced bitches (one could say the same about some men too!) Most were the former; however, women don’t ‘deserve’ to have a relationship, as you and many other gals seem to think, any more than a man does. So don’t go around calling people ‘immature’ or ‘insecure’ simply because they don’t feel the need to have a woman in their life.
Strider says: I’m a happily married guy Cassy, but I can empathize with this guy. Most North American women want to run their guy’s life. If she tires of him, or if he tires of the situation, the courts will give her a stick to beat him with for another twenty years or so. Cautious rather than immature I think.
Mat says: Cassy,
This tiny group of men and women that you see now will balloon as the younger groups hit this age bracket (I’m 35 now, so I’ll be hitting it soon). It’s sad in a lot of ways, but that’s apparently what this society wants. As a poster on Dr. Helen’s site stated (I’m paraphrasing), if this is what this society wants, then it will get it and it’s their own damn fault.
I’m single and while I would like to get married, I realize that I’m entering a period when it makes less and less sense for me to do so.
With divorce rate skyrocketing, the law punishing me for getting married if it were not to work and an ideology that tells women to totally distrust the opposite gender does not make fertile ground for serious companionship.
Just Wondering says: I’ve noticed something else at work as well. I’m still single at 42. I’m prettyish, smart, able to have a conversation and I really don’t want to run a man’s life. All I’ve ever wanted in a man was a partner. But I’m also independent, I don’t wait to be taken care of, I do the job. Most of the women I know who are single over 40 are similar, they are all quite able to take care of themselves. Most of the women I know who get married, especially the women I know who get married multiple times and are man-poison are incredibly needy. Annoyingly soul-suckingly needy. Yet, men choose them over the non-needy types all the time. I just don’t get it.
Sean says: Beats me. Settle down. That’s rich. A long,long,time ago, in a Republic far,far away, men and women used to marry, work some land or a business, have some children who lived, and were about as happy as anyone has a right to be. Enter prosperity. Now everyone looks around and is choosy. Women don’t need men because of courts,laws,technology,wealth,medicine,and rampant nanny state socialism. Men don’t want to get married because they will gain NOTHING and could lose everything. If one of these guys strays near a married woman, she senses the threat to all women and their matriarchal control of society, so she goes to work on him. Run free! Run! Short answer. Women want men to be more like men. Fine. Try being less of a bitch. That includes AFTER the march down the aisle in the Temple of Doom. Or as those guys mused in Mad Men, “What do women WANT?”, reply ” Who cares?” The unspoken riposete is, “When will they ever be happy with anything?”
RA says: For the same reason young men shun single older women. Its a hansome/beauty thing.
Actually I think single older men have an advantage. They have money and grow “distinguished”. When a rose petal fades it shrivels.
Well, it cuts both ways. It seems the notion is that if a man reaches forty and isn’t married, he’s wierd. What about a woman in the same spot? If you make it to this age and are single, and in most cases there is a reason (which I agree with), doesn’t that also mean that your choices are fewer and less appealing? While your appeal is declining, so is that of the other sex.
I would love to be married to a good woman, but it’s dang near impossible to find now that I’m crossing that 40 year barrier. All that seems to be left by this point are the dregs (of which includes me, I’m sure).
TXMarko says: 48 year-old male, happily married for 24 years now.
I found my Mate at Church, and I highly recommend this venue for others!
Lots of good points and insights offered here on this subject, however, I would like to ask Cassie (and everyone else) how they feel about the recent explosion of “Cougars”, or older women seeking the attentions of much younger men at bars, etc. Is that also “Creepy”… and “That indicates some severe issues in my book, some definite issues with growing up… ?
Goose and Gander, ya’ll….
I’m 48 and have been looking to get married again since the day after my divorce in 1986. Unfortunately, I rarely meet a woman who want to be anything more than casual friends. A few have been interested in me, but I wasn’t physically attracted to them. I psychoanalyzed myself for years to find an explanation for my lack of success and think I finally found it four years ago: I’m self-conscious and insecure. And even knowing that I find it a struggle to change and be more confident.
Sure, I’m college educated, not fat, not a drunk, not a drug user, not violent, save my money, own a house outright. And that stuff would be a plus for any woman looking to get married. But, ironically, there’s no way I can communicate all that to potential girlfriends in a way that they will believe. They go by visceral reactions, and I apparently don’t give good visceral reactions.
Lastly, I’ll say that in the eyes of many, if not most, single women, a single man is guilty until proven innocent. Way too many women won’t give a guy a chance because of their preconceived notions. Or if they DO give him a chance, he only gets one. Say or do the wrong thing one time and she’s through with him.
William says: Cassy,
I’ve been reading your blog for a while now and normally you are spot-on when it comes to your analysis. However, your assumption that men remain single because of some sort of trauma or immaturity is just flat out wrong. I’m 32 and will probably wind up single for life just like this guy. Not because I’m afraid of commitment, but because I have yet to find a woman with a lifestyle similar enough to mine to make sense marrying. I’m in the military and love outdoor activities and I always seem to find the stay-at-home types who can’t figure out why I want to go kayaking or camping and don’t own a TV. Maybe the right woman is out there somewhere, but damned if I can find her.
I turn 40 next month and have been married for 6 years now. Marriage suits me. At this point we have no children, and that’s likely to remain that way.
But I know without a doubt that if, God forbid, this marriage ends for any reason? I’ll choose to be single until I’m at least 70. Maybe longer.
Maybe I should’ve phrased this post differently, because a lot of you seem to be thinking that I am saying that these are the actual reasons older men are single. That’s not the approach I was trying to take. The post title was “Why do women shun single older men?”, and Dr. Helen’s reader’s question was why women dislike single older men. I was only trying to offer an explanation as to what it is women often think about single men who are in their late forties and beyond. I don’t necessarily believe that these assumptions are always true or correct. So, if it didn’t come across that way, then I am sorry, because that was my intention and I thought I had made that clear.
And for the record, I don’t think any better of women who are in their fifties and still single, either. I’ve written several times about my distaste for the “cougar” movement — just search the archives under cougars! 😉
Lazlo says: As a newly single guy at 49 after a 10 year relationship, I am encountering the ‘weird guy’ assumption myself. The weird guy thing doesn’t bother me, because those who know me- know me. Those who don’t; I could give a good cr*p about their opinion.
If I find marriage along my path through the rest of my life, then so be it. If I don’t then I will deal with that too.
Everybody has trauma, and they all deal with it in different ways. Some guys cast a jaundiced eye upon the female of the species. Some guys act half their age. I would like to think I will remain optimistic, and that I will find a mate who will like the Old Lazlo for who he is. If not, I will try to enter geezerhood as gracefully as I can.
But to marry someone just so I can relieve some perceived social stigma won’t wash. Doing something on account of someone else’s opinion (especially a casual acquaintance) is stupid.
Marry in haste; repent at leisure.
SCmtns says: Single, 40 and enjoying life.
Finally came to conclusion in my middle 30s that the type of women that I attracted were not the type I was ever attracted toward.
Haven’t been club-hopping in a over decade, but don’t really anticipate finding anyone any longer, because while I am very active and healthy, I never meet available women particating in golf, cycling, hiking or any of my other activities which define my life.
I simply refuse to spend any more of my life worrying about other’s opinion of my life. I wasted hours in the past over such nonsense, but no longer.
“I always shudder a little bit at the prospect of being a Carrie or a Samantha, perpetually single into my forties and in Samantha’s case, her fifties!”
Seems like you have a bias against solitude, which is not uncommon. In an extrovert-dominated society (i.e., The Talking Plague), anyone who would even consider being alone for more than 2 minutes, or not being in a relationship for an extended period, might as well jump from London Bridge and get it over with.
Phosphat says: Some women I know have told me in the past that they assume a man is gay or at least bi, if he has reached his late 40s or 50s without ever marrying.
Sisyphus,
That’s a great point, and I’ve not met Cassy in real life, but I’m willing to bet some hard currency she isn’t like that. If she was, we wouldn’t have these wonderful pages to read, and if we did, they’d be filled with a bunch of airhead pap. Which they’re not.
Having said that, though, “The Talking Plague” is a brilliant term. Hope you’ve released it to the public domain.
Toa says: This stigma of older single men being wierd, queers, etc. comes, very largely, from the sex-and-pleasure-crazed culture of “extended adolescence” that has infected nearly every avenue of American society. Way too many folks these days (even church people) have no knowledge of Biblical precepts along these lines, and just can’t comprehend the idea that there are single men who don’t sleep around because of spiritual/moral standards, and simply resort to childish taunts of “Ew, he’s ‘gay’!” And, of course, the wide-spread effects of Feminism have made the field more difficult than ever, as others here have noted, with men (most especially us white guys!) being viewed as just supplements, stupid/inept, conveniences, etc..
Jon says: I’m a 34 yr. old divorced man and am one of the damned lucky few to have sole custody of my 2 children. I intend to never marry again. Why? Two reasons: First, simple economics. Why should I enter into a business relationship (and yes, ladies, thanks to interference by the state, it’s a business relationship) in which I have a miniscule chance of getting even a slight return on my investment, a 80+% chance that the business relationship will fail, and hence, an 80+% chance that I’m going to lose AT LEAST
Jon says: (damn tab key. Where was I? Oh yeah…) AT LEAST 50% of my investment? And oh yeah, never get to see my kids.
Second, and most important, I REFUSE to get into a relationship with, according to stats, a strong possibility of failure, when I’m not the only one who will be traumatized. What happens to my childrens’ psyches if they get attached to some woman who just might leave the relationship and break their little hearts? Or even worse, what happens to my kids if said woman and I have a kid? Do mine get shuffled off to the side and treated like red-headed stepchildren (a virtual guarantee)?
Immaturity? Avoidance of responsibility? Fear of commitment?
I call it looking out for me and mine.
And screw anyone who can’t understand that.
Actually, I wouldn’t…
I’ll throw something out:
One reason some women shun older single men is calculation: they tend to be a lot harder to manipulate. An awful lot of women start going with/marry a man with the idea that “He’s just got a few problems, and I will fix them.” Older men, whether divorced, widowed or always single, have been whacked with this before and watch for it; when it starts, they either deflect it or flat-out say “Ain’t gonna work, so stop it.”
J David says: …LOL, *Who* is shunning WHO now? Oooo…I just GOT to have a woman, how could I possibly continue my existence without a female to think for me?
J David says: Considering there are considerably MORE women than men in the US population, I think some presuppositions are just a tad bit awry…
Who exactly, is “shunning” marriage(looks like it’s mens’ fault again!), since MEN do NOT have a “biological mandate”(no bio-clock is ticking), I say the “shunning”(women looking askance at older, single men as a handy example)is by the men no longer interested in buying the wife-as-the-boss claptrap of a “feminized” culture, and deciding to be their own bosses instead.
Peter says: 1. I start to date, and she starts trying to ‘fix’ me.
2. All my friends are idiots and morons.
3. All my possessions aren’t fit for Goodwill.
4. My apartment/house is a dump.
5. She gets tired of the whole thing, takes me to Court and takes half of everything. The best half, usually including the house that she was so critical of before.
6. After awhile, I start to notice that her girlfriends look at me as though I was carrying the plague, due to the incessant criticsm that is leveled without response.
Why would I bother marrying that? Or more accurately, since all the above happened to me, why would I make that mistake again?
You want to find the problem here? Look in the mirror. A pox on all of you.
Shannon in AZ says: Go foreign. Women raised in the American culture are the ones that have no family values. Every man I know of who has gotten a foreign bride after getting to know her and courting her has a good marriage.
Wow. You guys really discourage me from ever wanting to get married. I’m now looking askance at my longtime girlfriend (who wants a trip down the aisle with me). You all are making me wonder if she is going to turn on me someday and “take half of everything I own.”
That’s what much of this seems to come down to, I’ve noticed. Money. Men being afraid of losing what they have, or what they’ve worked for. It’s a valid concern…but is this fear of being taken to the cleaners really a good thing for idealistic young men to be hearing? You guys have made it sound like the entire female population are nothing but a bunch of greedy, vindictive shrews. And I know that’s not true. My church is filled to the brim with quality, hardworking women of noble character – of all ages and backgrounds. That really I think is an important of it; you need to find one who is of good moral fiber and who has her priorities in order.
Another primary concern is losing custody of the kids or of having their minds “poisoned.” Perhaps, but I have heard many stories of these kids growing up and eventually seeing their mother for who she is – a lying bitch who tried to brainwash them with all kids of untrue slander about their father. Meanwhile, many of the fathers went the entire period between the divorce and the kids reaching adulthood without saying a single unkind word about their mom…and are seen by the adult children as a saint.
I’m really sorry to hear about all the misfortune that many of you have apparently suffered at the hands of women, but I’m even more sorry to hear the experience has left you so jaded and cynical. You really are doing single, never-married young men (I don’t mean old men, but young ones) a disservice. You’re encouraging them to adopt your cynical attitude about women and marriage, and as a result you might even be causing them to forget about finding someone special who could actually bring these guys a lifetime of happiness.
Many of you prattle on about how you’re perfectly happy without some gal “trying to run your lives,” but I wouldn’t be. I have also not given up on finding a decent woman who views marriage as a permanent & equal partnership. As God intended it to be.
You may be encouraging these young guys to do the very thing that women hate most – use them for no-strings-attached sex, then take off. Is that what you want to encourage among the 18-30 males who might read your comments?
LarryQ says: Ok…so you’re in a marriage. What are tell-tale signs that your wife is having an affair. I have some suspicions, but no proof.
Larrry
Jon says: Cylar, having read your post, I am suddenly reminded of my Diderot:
“Impenetrable in their dissimulation, cruel in their vengeance, tenacious in their purposes, unscrupulous as to their methods, animated by profound and hidden hatred for the tyranny of man — it is as though there exists among them an ever-present conspiracy toward domination, a sort of alliance like that subsisting among the priests of every country.”
“On Women” (1772)
It is with a chilling accuracy that Denis Diderot portrayed the Modern Western Woman…
Cylar, it’s not simply money: it’s things they’ve put together over the years and things they do they fear losing. You can call it good or bad, but the concern is real; there’s been too many guys taken to the cleaners to ignore it.
I’d not suggest looking askance at your lady, lots of people marry till death do them part, and are quite happy with it.
As to the ‘the kids eventually think them a saint’, that’s all very nice, but in the meantime those guys have lost years, sometimes decades, of their kids growing up. That’s no small thing.
Dave says: A very good friend gave me this bit of advice: It’s better to be alone than to wish you were alone.
Firehand & John….Sad guys, just sad. I’ve got pity & compassion for you more than anything else. ButI stand by what I said. A shame you got tangled up with the shrews and not the good women. They ARE out there if you care to look.
And again, stop with this. Seriously. You’re going to make the young guys think all women are nasty and greedy. Don’t spoil courtship and marriage for them, OK? We know the real problem is with the court system.
J David says: To “Dave”…
I came to same conclusion as your friend a LONG time ago, except I am not “alone” per se, I am just free of female encumbrance. Instead of alone, actually, in my present state I can be with ANYONE rather than just whom SHE “approves of”…
Rather than having a built-in chaperon/censor that has squeezed my world down into a tiny little circle, of which my family-in-law is the center, I have the ENTIRE WORLD at my disposal.
Been there says: Hi All
Here’s my two bits…
I’m a 47 soon to be 48 year old man, Survivor of two marriages. The first was to a woman who after 14 years of marriage told me that the only reason she married me was because she thought I could fix her Bi-polar disorder and by the way openly admitted that she never loved me…A hard pill to swallow. She left with half of everything and a healthy chunk of money from my 401K then filed bankruptcy forcing me to do the same or lose everything.
Wife number two, was a much shorter affair. We married and she immediately started trying to persuade me to sell my home and property which I had been paying for, for 15 years, I finally agreed and we moved. 21 days later on our 4th wedding anniversary she told me she wanted a divorce and since I had turned all my premarital assets into cash, they became marital assets and she was entitled to half…Which the courts gave her. 15 years of scrimping and saving so the courts could give half of my net worth to her…Nice!
My point? All the modern women think is…
If I can get him to give me two kids and a house..I don’t need him anymore, Because the courts will make sure he pays for it whether he’s here or not.
Just ask a woman out and see how long it takes for her to steer the conversation toward what you do for a living, What kind of car you drive and hint about how much your worth… Keep careful track…
It’s your life your protecting and the security your building right now is what will determine your lifestyle and security later….
Don’t throw caution to the wind based on the words she says..Rather pay attention to the things she askes and does.
Does she at least offer to help with the tab? Or does she fumble with her lipstick when the bill comes…HMMMMM!
One last thing…Don’t let her confuse the word gentleman with beneficiary…
Been there says: P.S. I will suggest you read 31,32 and 33 here…There’s a lot of truth and experience in those entries. I vote for a marriage strike.
Let’s see the women of the world get the things they want without fleecing the men to get it.
Women shun older men because we’re on to the games and manipulations and we don’t fall for the tricks as easily as younger less experienced guys. We’re harder to fool and they know that, in about ten seconds after meeting us. Then they move on to easier prey.
Hiwayman says: Agreed Been there ( message 46)I’ve been married/divorced 2 times now. Single for 22 years.You youngsters need to look wayyyyyyy past the BS these wymen try and sell and look at te facts.
1) the divorce rate is over 50 % now. And 80% are started by wymen.
2) tp get involved legally with any female make very sure you have a grat job and tons of money.( It will take 10-20k for a 1/2 way desent lawyer)
3) Google up Parental Alienation Syndrome and read it well. Both my ex’s poisoned my kids minds. It took me 30 years to finally figure out what went wrong. The courts could care less. So in the end all it was about was playing me for my money.( the same thing wymen do all te time).
4) So you think it won’t happen to you. Ask any guy who was ever divor ced and ask him if he ever thought he would end up divorced.
5) Pre-Nups don’t work when kids are involved.
JA says: Well I just hit 40 this year (2010)and for a long time I haven’t had any female prospects. I guess maybe because this is because I have seemingly jumped from 1 career to the next and that makes me unstable. Even when I was earning decent money in my 30s though, I never had a serious relationship-except a 1 year plus with a 45 year old single mom. I’ve tried to hook up with younger women whom I knew were single but they didn’t want my kind. Now that I’m 40 well I guess I shouldn’t need to worry anymore. I wouldn’t want to spend the rest of my life all alone but that is what it’s looking like.
mina says: The men here sounds like they are men with poor qualities. I am a 37 years old professional woman making over 100 thousand dollars a year. My two other girlfriends are all my age who are doctors making over 100 thousand dollars a year. And we are all less than 120lbs 5ft4in not bad looking at all…I know we are nice looking because men always look at us and smile as we walk down the street…However..it is next to impossible to find men who are professional,educated, and wants commitment in a relationship. We already decided to go for adoption for kids in another few years without men.
I think professional women are much more likely to stay single..and it is all because there is a lack of qualified good men.
Chuck says: I am 57 and divorced for 7 yrs now. I have been married twice so I guess you could say I don’t or didn’t have a fear of commitment. I do now though. My first wife of 5 yrs walked out all of a sudden while I was literally building our house. I was apparently working too hard at my office and on the house and she got bored. That cost me $80K. I was single then for 6 yrs and it took me that long to find someone that I thought was compatible. We were married for 15 yrs, had two beautiful children, a paid for home, good jobs, etc. Then she hit her mid-life crisis, had an affair and asked me for a divorce. That cost me half my time with my children and $150K. I am a nice guy, don’t smoke, drink, have no temper, work hard, pay my bills and keep myself fit at 180#’s. The only thing I have been guilty of is maybe being boring. I have recovered quite well financially and have a country home on 50 acres and a summer cottage up north. I would love to have a life partner. The loneliness can be almost unbearable at times. I just can’t set myself up for another emotional and financial hit like that. Especially here in Wisconsin which is a community property state. I have known way to many guys that have married what seemed like a real sweet woman just to have her change her mind after a year and gut him like a fish. It’s not that we are afraid to commit. It’s that we’re afraid to bet our remaining life savings and work on the mental stability of a menopausal woman. And FYI guys, prenups are easily voided and most have an expiration date.
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