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Hot Air brings us this preview of the Joy Behar Show, and oh boy, does it look… interesting. This little preview is a doozy in and of itself, and in it, Joy Behar accuses parents who spank their children of child abuse.
Now, I actually agree with Joy here on one point. Parents shouldn’t be spanking their one-year-olds. I would lightly swat my sister’s hand if she would reach for an electrical outlet when she was around that age after I told her not to, for example. She never cried when I did it, and would pretty much turn around and crawl off to play with something else. But full-blown spanking is not needed for a one-year-old. I will give Joy that much.
However, she acts as if this is the only age in which children get spanked. And of course, she had to slip in an anti-Bush smear there as well, because of course, her anti-war views are completely relevant to a discussion about spanking.
Now, yes, it is the job of the child to misbehave and the job of the parent to teach them right from wrong. But how else are they supposed to do that without using discipline every once in a while? It’s telling how, when describing spanking, she says that parents should never do anything that bruises them physically or psychologically. Get why she said that? Spanking does not often leave physical bruises, which I’m sure she knows, and that’s probably why she added in the “psychologically” bit. It’s also telling how she mentions that spanking won’t make your children love or respect you. Well, this may be a shocker to Joy Behar and liberals like her, but disciplining your children has nothing to do with gaining their love or respect! You discipline your children to teach them right from wrong, to show them that actions have consequences that may sometimes be unpleasant. No parent should spank their child every time they misbehave, but sometimes, yes, it is needed.
Also, it is so very typical of a liberal like Joy Behar to get her panties all in a bunch of “psychological bruising”. Guess what, Joy? Life is not all peaches and cream. That’s a part of growing up. It’s not fun for you to see your child get their feelings hurt, but ultimately, they will learn and grow from it. You are doing your child a disservice if you try to shield them from all psychological bruising. Spanking your child shows them that repeatedly misbehaving can have harsh consequences. And yes, they will probably be a little bit “psychologically bruised” afterwards But they’re kids. They’re resilient. Within ten or fifteen minutes, they’ll be over it and happy again. Psychological bruises, like physical ones, aren’t fun but they ultimately make you tougher. A kid who has had to deal with a little bit of harsh discipline and psychological bruising will be much better equipped to deal with middle school, high school, college, and eventually the real world than a kid whose parents protected him from all things harsh and mean and cruel. Life isn’t always easy. Part of your job as a parent is to help prepare them for the reality of the real world. Life is not a Barney episode, no matter how much liberals may like to pretend it is.
Like anything else, spanking should only be done in moderation. Overdoing it could be considered child abuse. But a parent who occasionally spanks their child is certainly not an abusive parent. I’d bet that they’re also probably a better parent than Joy Behar could ever dream of being.
Melinda P says: Actually, spanking your child when they deserve it, shows them that you love them enough to set limits and to let them know when they are out of line. The Bible also says that parents who love their children will discipline them.
The problem with parents todays is that most of them take on this “be your child’s best friend” crap. It doesn’t work. Their kids walk all over them and act as if they are entitled to everything and anything. There are many kids out there who could use a swat on their bottom. It would get their attention and let them know that maybe they shouldn’t do that again. Children actually thrive better in an environment where there is discipline. They WANT to know that someone is in control! Children want someone to tell them that they need to do x,y,z. We don’t need to spank every time they do something wrong, but we do need to let them know that there are things that are expected of them.
For example, my husband and I went to an open house this weekend with our boys who are 6 and 3. Before we got out of the car, we reminded them of the rules which are that they are to be seen and not heard. We also tell them to be good as gold. Well wouldn’t you know there were other parents with their children there as well. The other kids were running around, turning off lights, telling their parents they didn’t want to come upstairs, and having the parents asking if they (the kids) were ready yet! Meanwhile, my sons stood beside my husband and I while we looked around and eventually talked to the builder. My kids aren’t perfect, but they know how to behave! We had every right to be pround of them!
Jesse in South FL says: The whole “psychologically bruising” part is the funniest/most lame. So it’s not okay to spank a two-year old because it might psychologically bruise them, but it’s perfectly normal to take his/her temperature by a sticking a thermometer up their ass?
Sorry, I was reading a Mens Health review of thermometers and they showed a rectal thermometer and the review said “because of the discomfort, only should be used for ages 2 and under” and I thought “What the hell? Why would you want to do that to a little kid?” So it’s the first thing I thought of after reading this post.
mer says: So, she’s against spanking children, but how about spanking a consenting adult?
It’s no fun when you mistake the rectal thermometer for an oral one.
Spanking is used to actuate the orbito-frontal cortex. This is the part of the brain that says “Don’t — Just Because.” It bypasses and and all cognitive thought. Your “tap the hand” example notwithstanding…which is part of the same category of punishment, really…this is the only way to effectively communicate a message of “don’t” to any child who is too young to understand vocalized, cognitive thought.
The irony here is that the OFC is the only lobe hardcore liberals like Behar activate when they pretend to be doing their arguing, besides that oh-so-busy mouth-muscle-moving cortex. There’s no “because” at all, no cause-and-effect whatsoever. There is only “Don’t.”
SicSemperTyrannus says: Re: Joy Behar,
Did that thing ever spawn? If not, she should go drink a nice tall glass of STFU.
Kevin M says: Behar is a moron, but I still agree with Alice Miller: spanking is child abuse. Spanking is nothing but the ever convenient, “I’m bigger than you, and here’s proof!”
Yup. Child abuse. And no, I’m not a liberal. And yes, I have four children of my own. Never hit any of them, and never had a discipline problem from any of them. (One of my secrets: no sugar in the house, and candy is only for holidays.)
Orbito-frontal cortex, my fat hairy ass!
Lorraine says: there is a fine line between discipline and abuse, but there IS a line and babys should *never* be spanked. that said, I think spanking teaches more than just right and wrong. it was always a last resort for me with my child and I fortunately didnt have to do it often. spanking served to instill a healthy sense of respect for parental authority. not a fear of *me* as a parent and a person, but a fear of crossing certain boundaries I’ve set up as the authority figure and a sense of respect for that authority. the job of the parent is more than just to love, nurture and protect… it’s to prepare the child for living in the world it was born into, teaching them the rules we live by and that there are consequences for breaking those rules, some of them pretty unpleasant.
and I’m sorry, if I’m with my 4 or 5 year old in a busy department store and he’s being unruly and disruptive and running all over and not listening, you better believe I’m going to pop him on the butt a few times to get his attention and to let him know mommy means business!
Kevin,
Do you promise your method works for all children?
To be fair, let’s say all fairly normal, non-behaviorally-disabled children. All sorts of different personality types? Each and every single child? Cross your heart, hope to die, stick a needle in yer eye?
It’s been my general experience when you politely ask for some accountability, bullshit high-tails it out of the room pretty fast.
PDeverit says: Child buttock-battering vs. DISCIPLINE:
Child buttock-battering for the purpose of gaining compliance is nothing more than an inherited bad habit.
Its a good idea for people to take a look at what they are doing, and learn how to DISCIPLINE instead of hit.
I think the reason why television shows like “Supernanny” and “Dr. Phil” are so popular is because that is precisely what many (not all) people are trying to do.
There are several reasons why child bottom-slapping isn’t a good idea. Here are some good, quick reads recommended by professionals:
Plain Talk About Spanking
by Jordan Riak,
The Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children
by Tom Johnson,
NO VITAL ORGANS THERE So They Say
by Lesli Taylor M.D. and Adah Maurer Ph.D.
Most compelling of all reasons to abandon this worst of all bad habits is the fact that buttock-battering can be unintentional sexual abuse for some children. There is an abundance of educational resources, testimony, documentation, etc available on the subject that can easily be found by doing a little research on “spanking”.
Just a handful of those helping to raise awareness of why child bottom-slapping isn’t a good idea:
American Academy of Pediatrics,
American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry,
Center For Effective Discipline,
PsycHealth Ltd Behavioral Health Professionals,
Churches’ Network For Non-Violence,
Nobel Peace Prize recipient Archbishop Desmond Tutu,
Parenting In Jesus’ Footsteps,
Global Initiative To End All Corporal Punishment of Children,
United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child.
In 26 countries, child buttock-battering is prohibited by law (with more in process). In fact, the US was the only UN member that did not ratify the Convention on the Rights of the Child.
All I can say is that my mother wore my butt out regularly when I deserved it. I’m from the South where she didn’t mess around with belts and the like, she would send me out to cut her a nice switch then use it on me. It was always deserved and never malicious. I think I’ve turned out OK. I’ve only killed three or four transients. That’s really no big deal, right?
Disciplining (teaching right from wrong through limit setting) by spanking is the least effective way to teach your child right from wrong.That’s what I’ve learned after 39 years as a child mental health therapist. Spanking changes behavior based on physical pain and fear of parents-and behavior does change. But here’s the cost: feeling “I’m bad” and “I don’t want to do this again or my parents will not love me and will be really mad.”
Disciplining through consequences, deprivations, and rewards focuses on the behavior not the child, a much healthier way to teach right and wrong. This way of disciplining provides the opportunity to change behavior while the child feels respected and valued. The result, “I’m still lovable even though I did the wrong thing and need to do better next time.”
Why risk you child feeling “I’m bad” or “I’m unlovable” through spanking when behavior can be changed without spanking.
Gary M Unruh MSW
Gary,
Yes, because telling a child that they’re just wonderful and special and entitled is a much better option. To be honest, giving kids a healthy dose of reality from time to time isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
I live in Folsom, CA.
You’d have to argue with me long and hard to convince me we’ve got some kind of crisis with too many kids & adults feeling unlovable.
Too many kids & adults feeling they can do no wrong, now that, I would say, is a far bigger problem. But you see it as an issue when precious childrens might spend a few minutes out of a childhood feeling real shame? That isn’t supposed to happen? Ever?
I got a feeling you’re part of the problem not part o’ the solution.
Knott Buyinit says: Physical discipline was employed for thousands of years by humankind without anyone getting all worked up about it until some pointy-headed suede-o-intellectuals got involved in the last century. And 99.9% of those guys couldn’t ‘discipline’ a cow down a lane, much less raise a child properly. Speaking of cows, it’s not just humans that employ physical discipline, as anyone who has ever lived on a farm or had a litter of kittens or puppies around the house can tell you. I would even go so far as to say that, for a lot of people, their first ‘the older I get the smarter my parents become’ moment is the first time they spank their own child. Can I get an ‘amen’?
Kevin M says: Knott: Your post is an embarrassment to intelligent discussion. Go back to your barnyard church and feel good about beating your children because the bible says it’s cool.
Kevin,
Well, considering that most people on this site have more or less agreed with Knott’s analysis, I don’t think your retort means much.
Lorraine says: it’s true, physical punnishment has been used by mankind from the beginning and while some people go overboard and cross the line from discipline to abuse, the VAST majority of us havent. I was spanked when I was a kid, when I deserved it, and I truly believe I’m stronger for it. ALL of my friends that I grew up with were also spanked when they deserved it. and just about everyone that I know today received spankings when warranted. but I do believe that it should be the last resort.
maybe some people… the ones who habitually cross the line and TRULY abuse their kids should not only have their kids taken away, but be sterilized as well so they cant have anymore children to screw up. But stop criticizing the rest of us.
sonja says: As someone who works at an airport which recently had a massive influx of women and kids, I’m all for harsher discipline than what appears to be the current norm.
One woman was so busy arguing with a car rental lady (who never raised her voice), that her young son kept mucking about, resulting in hurting another little girl, then splitting his own head when he fell over. All she was doing to control the brat was saying sorry (???!) and calling him to come back to her.
She yelled at the rental lady, but didn’t so much as raise her voice at her wild child. Had he been my son, I would have kept a firm grip on him and given him at least a slap on the hand for the way he was behaving. It’s about what my parents would have done with me.
Heck, most of the people around my age have one proud story about their parents and a broken wooden spoon!
Jon says: I’ve been spanked as a child but the only thing I learned from the experience was to not get caught.
To Spank or not to Spank will always be a never ending story… Here is a 1999 Court Decision that one may want to add to their memory banks: http://www.nfpcar.org/eBook/Spanking.htm
paulette says: i diffenitly do not agree with spanking a child it is abuse i know because i was brought up with it.the child will rebell.if they dont listen you take them by the hand and tell them to go to their room or try other alternatives without spanking. to spank doesnt show love it shows abuse is ok.if your child wont listen to you at all well your doing something wrong.
Bobbie Austin says: It was a pleasure to read all of the comments today on “pro-spanking.” Joy had made me feel like a real idiot the other night. I thought that I must have been the only person in the world who had received spankings and had spanked my kids when they were young. This form of discipline is the most effective with children. If more of todays kids had received spankings, I’m sure the crime rate would be a bit different.
Trisha says: I’ve been tortured with that stupid spanking clip at work where that show was advertised WAY too thoroughly. I will avidly avoid it. A.) Who the heck is Joy Behar and who decided she was important? A loud-mouth does not equate intelligence. and B.) Spanking does not equal child abuse. No, I do not condone spanking at one. My little boy will be one next week and a “mean” look and a stern “no thank-you.” is sufficient. I don’t necessarily advocate spanking at any age-it can become an easy way out; but on other hand if it’s a lesser punishment than, say, getting hit by a car from not listening an running out in the road then by all means a quick swat on the bottom will suffice. Some kids just need discipline in different ways for different reasons. I’ve seen situations where parents have laid such an emotional verbal lashing and guilt trip on their child that I’ve caught myself thinking, ‘Oh geez, just pat their bottom and be on with it! Quit with the mental abuse!’ So yes, maybe spanking at one is a little soon, but spanking-when used in moderation by a parent who cares is by NO means child abuse.
Perhaps Joy could use a quik swat for making good parents feel like crap! “NO THANK-you, JOY”
Todd says: Got 3 kids 6,8,9, all girls. We travel often to theme parks and I ‘m terrified of abductions. Breeze my 8 yo constantly ran ahead of us or hopped into rides w/o telling us. At times we got worried the paging system was used. I never hit my kids before, but she was out of control and I was willing to try it as a last effort before seeing shrinks. Details are not necessary to satisfy pervs but a trip to our van, some handywork, , some love, some taliking, stopped the scaring me to death, she only got a few butt stings. Small payment for now giving her “the eye” is all we need.
TealRose says: Yes, I was spanked by hand and a hard, leather slipper and once or twice with a belt, from when I was quite small. I was a very obedient, quiet child. Yet my parents believed that infractions such as spilling milk, not eating mushrooms, not eating all my dinner, and any other trifling thing was reason for a spanking. My mother was the most impatient of women and would brush my very curly long hair hard and I would ask her to be more careful, or would wriggle about and she would just slap my arms or thighs hard with her hand leaving huge red handprints that lasted for ages. She was always far too ‘busy’ doing housework as she was a complete perfectionist, than hugging me or playing with me. They would decide I needed spanking over some trivia, and would expect me to ’submit’ by coming to them and getting my pants down. This quiet, terrorised child, never did. I couldn’t and wouldn’t! [Didn’t make a lot of difference after all, they were determined to spank me to make me scream – after a couple of smacks the pain was so bad that all the others just blurred into one agony and whether I was spanked for just 10 minutes or an hour really didn’t matter.} After all these were the same parents that taught me that hitting wasn’t acceptable!! These were there people that were supposed to love and teach me things. They would then yank me over their knee ripping down my panties, and lay into me. Never ‘just’ 10 or whatever no, I was spanked till I was screaming with the unfairness and hate, till I was totally weak. They thought that this meant they had ‘got through’ to me, or that I was submitting to the spanking. I wasn’t … I was in SO much pain I had no choice. And I learned nothing. [So many spankings for such trivia meant I can’t really remember why I was spanked therefore I didn’t learn not to do it again!] I was always in SO much pain, I couldn’t understand what they were talking about at the time. They would lecture me before and during .. and expect me to tell the truth. Trouble was THEY never accepted my truth as ‘I was only a child’ !! A lot of the time they spanked me for things I had never done. I learned .. to be terrified, that they didn’t love me, that everything I did was wrong and I wasn’t good enough [this haunts me still at 56yrs old !] I learned resentment and hatred. They alienated me and I still feel all of these things keenly. To the point that reading the above stories of spankings of children, my pulserate has doubled and my adrenalin has kicked in making me feel rather sick. I am a strong grandmother of 56 and don’t suffer from ‘nerves’! This reaction is to spanking. Whether one slap – or like in my case … hundreds. They did try the ‘its over and we love you’ speech .. but there was no way I could either believe it or allow them near me. You can’t cause THAT amount of pain and then be expected to have me say back ‘ thanks mum, sorry I breathed the wrong way’ and give her a hug! She often spanked in the day .. and then got my dad to follow up when he came in at night. He did for a long time… until he began to realise that this was all nonsense. He would come up …talk to me…. and pretend he had spanked me. I don’t know if she ever found out!
I never spanked, and yes I had two difficult children who loved to stretch the limits. But we TAUGHT our children didn’t spank/hit them. I believe strongly that even one slap is child abuse. If I slapped an adult it surely would be deemed abuse even if I told the police ‘I was just ‘teaching’ my husband to take out the bin!’ Teach a child with kindness and it will grow and flourish. I am just amazed and so upset to read here how people who were spanked/slapped/switched/belted/strapped/paddled/boarded/wooden spooned as children can turn round and say that they ‘needed’ it and that they now do this to their children! That is horrendous! As for washing a childs mouth out with soap !! Don’t let me even start on that! My children are now adults and are kind, courteous people, and my daughter has two little children whom she takes care to TEACH right from wrong – not bully, or spank into submission teaching them fear and hatred of them or themselves.
Also interestingly, my secondary/high school never used corporal punishment – and more well behaved, courteous, kind and generous girls you couldn’t meet anywhere! However, the other local school that DID use corporal punishment – the girls just were hooligans, in and out of school, and didn’t give a damn about anyone or anything!
My hope is that one day … ALL countries in the world will ban spanking of any kind, bringing to an end a reign of physical and emotional abuse on our tiniest and most vulnerable members of society – and hopefully instilling in parents some idea of true parenting that takes time and effort and … kindness. Just because it has been done for thousands of years and is ‘traditional’ doesn’t make it right! So was slavery … and wife beating, and sending starving street children to Australia for stealing bread !!! Don’t take the chance and inflict on your little ones, the heart stopping fear that I suffer as an adult, when I see or read about spanking, or hear a belt being jangled and pulled through belt loops, or see someone innocently picking up their slipper in the typical spanking hold. I learned so much more through the kindness of my teachers [NONE of whom ever spanked me or gave me a detention – which tells you a lot about my behaviour! ] and grandparents.
Wishing you all a Happy, Loving and Peaceful New Year – especially the children!
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