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The separation of church and state is one of the biggest myths out there. There is no separation of church and state clause in our Constitution, although people do have a right to freedom of religion. The separation of church and state argument comes from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson, and was noted by Jefferson as a reassurance that the state would not interfere with any church. That’s basically what the First Amendment and the Establishment Clause say: that the government cannot meddle with anyone’s religious freedoms or with the structure of a religious organization.
Well, I guess in Connecticut, that constitutional right no longer matters, because the (Democrat-controlled) Judiciary Committee has introduced a bill giving the state the right to organize Catholic parishes and diocese according to state requirements:
The Lawlor-and-McDonald-controlled Judiciary Committee has introduced Raised Bill 1098, a bill aimed specifically at the Catholic Church, which would remove the authority of the bishop and pastor over individual parishes and put a board of laymen in their place. You can read Rep. Lawlor’s defense of this bill, Bridgeport Bishop William Lori’s response and more here.
We need as big a turnout as possible for the public hearing on Wednesday, especially from non-Catholics. As Ben Franklin told the Founders while they were signing the Declaration of Independence, “either we hang together or we will all hang separately.” Legislators need to understand that this bill is an attack on everyone’s religious liberty.
If the legislature can replace a bishop with a board of laymen in the Catholic Church, they can just as easily replace the governing lay structure of Congregationalist or Baptist churches with someone set up as a bishop. In fact, it was resistance to such government interference in the internal life of the church that gave birth to several of our most historic denominations. Thanks to this awful bill, our generation must now rise up to defend those hard-fought victories for religious liberty that were won for us by our ancestors.
This should send a chill down your spine, Catholic or not. What this will do is basically take away the existing organization of the Catholic church, and replace it with a governing board selected by the state. The pastors, bishops, and archbishops in Connecticut would see all of their authority in the church taken away. The archbishop or bishop would have a seat on the board, but would have no right to vote. This bill is directed only at the Catholic church.
American Papist has the defense of this despicable bill from Mike Lawlor himself:
… the current state statutes governing Roman Catholic corporations … were enacted in 1955. SB 1098 is a proposal to make changes in that law, which was suggested by parishioners who were the victims of theft of their funds in several parishes, and these parishioners feel that the state’s existing Roman Catholic Corporate laws prevented them from dealing with the misuse and theft of funds.
I agree with you that the whole notion of having a statute governing the church seems like an intrusion on the separation of church and state, but the current law does that already. Perhaps we should repeal the whole thing, but if we are going to have a corporate law of this type, it probably should make sure there cannot be deception of parishioners.
Here’s the problem with that reasoning. Theft and fraud are already against the law. If a parishioner believes that theft and/or fraud has taken place, then they can take legal action. If they feel they’ve been deceived, then obviously there’s no legal action they can take — there’s no law against lying or deception, even if it’s not very nice to lie to or deceive someone. A parishioner can, though, stop donating money to that particular parish. They can attend another parish. Or they could cease attendance of Catholic churches altogether. No one is required to donate money to their church, nor are they required to attend a particular church. The government, however, does require people to donate their money, and what recourse does an unhappy citizen have when they feel their money is being mishandled?
The Bridgeport Diocese has responded to these accusations and to this bill. They also, interestingly enough, noted that the state of Connecticut has racked up a $1.5 billion deficit, and therefore probably has no right to try to manage the finances of an organzation whose finances are already quite sound.
This past Thursday, March 5, the Judiciary Committee of the Connecticut State Legislature, which is chaired by Sen. Andrew McDonald of Stamford and Rep. Michael Lawlor of East Haven, introduced a bill that directly attacks the Roman Catholic Church and our Faith.
This bill violates the First Amendment of the United States Constitution. It forces a radical reorganization of the legal, financial, and administrative structure of our parishes. This is contrary to the Apostolic nature of the Catholic Church because it disconnects parishes from their Pastors and their Bishop. Parishes would be run by boards from which Pastors and the Bishop would be effectively excluded.
This bill, moreover, is a thinly-veiled attempt to silence the Catholic Church on the important issues of the day, such as same-sex marriage.
The State has no right to interfere in the internal affairs and structure of the Catholic Church. This bill is directed only at the Catholic Church but could someday be forced on other denominations. The State has no business controlling religion.
The Pastors of our Diocese are doing an exemplary job of sound stewardship and financial accountability, in full cooperation with their parishioners.
For the State Legislature — which has not reversed a $1 billion deficit in this fiscal year — to try to manage the Catholic Church makes no sense. The Catholic Church not only lives within her means but stretches her resources to provide more social, charitable, and educational services than any other private institution in the State. This bill threatens those services at a time when the State is cutting services. The Catholic Church is needed now more than ever.
We reject this irrational, unlawful, and bigoted bill that jeopardizes the religious liberty of our Church.
Catholic or not, all Americans should be outraged over this. This bill is a gross overreach of power, not to mention a disgusting infringement on Connecticut citizens’ constitutional religious liberties. The government has no right whatsoever to regulate the structure of any religious organization.
Please call Senator McDonald and Representative Lawlor, and let them know that what they are doing is unacceptable. Again, whether or not you are a Catholic or a citizen of Connecticut is irrelevant. All Americans have the right to freedom of religion, and an infringment on that right anywhere can affect all of us. This is an ugly step towards fascism, and we cannot stand for it.
Senator Andrew McDonald:
(800) 842-1420; (203) 348-7439
E-mail: McDonald@senatedems.ct.gov
Representative Michael Lawlor:
(800) 842-8267; (203) 469-9725
E-mail: MLawlor99@juno.com
Hat Tip: Hot Air
Mark says: I plan on attending this mockery. This can not be allowed to pass! It all stems from Catholic leaders stating that they will not be forced into performing abortions at Catholic hospitals and would rather shutter them.
You know, it wouldn’t be a bad idea if more Catholics grew a spine and stood up to this constant invasion on their right to religious freedom.
Cylar says: I can’t wait to see what happens when the try this on some mosque.
Oh wait, with them it’s the other way around. Some communities in Britain are now under the jurisdiction of sharia courts…and effectively outside the reach of the national government there.
Mark says: http://www.kofc.org/un/index.cfm Here’s the latest news on tomorrow’s meeting, which now looks as if it’s been postponed.
I am not a regular watcher of Connecticut politics, and therefore, will largely defer to those who are. I acknowledge Mark (March 9, 2009 6:09 PM) and strongly suspect that he has the political angle well-pegged.
Having said this, Cassy, I am alarmed — but not quite as much as you are — over the legislative action. New York has a statutory title known as the “Religious Corporation Law” which sets forth the rules for the secular temporal governance of houses of worship of diverse denominations. This is needed because even though, as you observe, “Theft and fraud are already against the law,” there are many, many instances of private aggrandizement which fall short of theft, fraud, deceit, and even fall short of simple dishonesty. These cut across the broad spectrum of religious faiths, it is in no way unique to the Catholic Church and/or particular parishes thereof.
If the organization (religious or otherwise) is to be tax-exempt, then there needs to be some limitation as to what it can and cannot do with its worldly property. THe fact that most of these established churches answer to some ecclesiastical authority outside of the state (and some, outside of the United States) necessitates SOME sort of governance standards.
This is not to say that the proposed legislation does or does not extend too far into the free exercise of the Catholic faith. Mike Lawlor’s rationale is quite valid on its face. But, as Mark implicitly notes, Mike Lawlor has a political agenda.
“You cannot tell a church how it can govern itself,” said Marc D. Stern, general counsel for the American Jewish Congress in New York. “The church is entitled to govern itself any which way it wants.”
This is about a Church with tax payers who have rights to have “backbone” and be involved in the political process. In the 1800’s Catholics could not even own property in Conn. Apparently, we forget that Protestants came from this Church, but the Protestants never forgot.
EWTN – Eternal Word Television Network and the last Pope JPII taught me much about the RC Church and faith. I have great respect for it now.
Their Church stands solid on issues of life. Those who stray from the official RC Church teachings really are not RC and should go to other churches.
Problems: from the womb to the tomb and they mean it. They even pray for those even after they have died. I see this as charity. Not everyone in health care (who makes money off abortion) or in politics (who make money off lobbyists and health care) want to hear this. Bama insists on doing “what’s necessary.” Yet, this isn’t the same as doing “what’s right.” Because “what’s right” will be good in the long run, “what’s necessary” often comes back to haunt us.
Problem: they see marriage as life long and don’t want divorce. Many RC people who remarry cannot do so in that Church unless an “annulment” is granted after serious consideration. They don’t want women or children left uncared for. This seems rational, holy and proper to me. Those who remarry outside that Church can still attend their Last Supper – Holy Communion called Mass, but they cannot receive Holy Communion. Interesting that in life there are simply rules that exist. Jump off a bridge without a parachute and watch what gravity does. As the saying goes – nature never forgives. There are rules in corporations too. Don’t charge into Ford and demand changes for it to behave like Kmart. Common sense tells us this.
Because “marriage” has been up-for-grabs for years (DIVORCE has sky rocketed along with (watch the coincidence here when there’s no father) illiteracy, illegitimate children, abortion, poverty, violence and more. “Marriage” too in that Church has always been defined as one man and one woman. They are not Protestants and cannot change interpretation of Sacred Scriptures. For them it was not about “Solo Fide and Solo Scriptura.” They actually believe and most practice Faith and Works, with Scripture, Tradition (we know James was killed in Spain, and the first martyr of the Apostles; this is one example of numerous that were passed on orally (aka “tradition”) but not through Scriptures. St. Paul makes reference about this)and what’s passed on through the Magisterium.
You see, the Pope is their leader, and even in difficult times with flaws and human nature, their Church has made it. Just like with the original Apostles, and Judas the betrayer. It’s miraculous that the Church not only survived, but grew and flourished, and stemmed out to those who took different paths (Protestants). This all came from the Jewish faith and those folks were always up against the odds, which makes the faith we share today even more remarkable and miraculous.
Any event, it looks like Mike Lawlor and Andrew McDonald (both lawyers, politicians, openly gay) had a vendetta against this Church that cannot marry men with men or women with women. The RC Church had to close their adoption charities in Mass. because of SSM. That Church like any Church (or religion) has a right to it’s beliefs and PRACTICES, and to be involved in laws that will affect them and their (great/grand/children) families.
My thoughts…if they matter… find another Church or religion – don’t violate the Freedom of Religion which is so very important and at the core of all life.
Learned from friends and family what’s really cooking in CT.
On Thurs. 3/5/09, Lawlor and McDonald (co chairs of judiciary committee, powerful and arrogant) attacked the Deacon from CT Catholic Conference and the head of Family Institute of CT at a meeting to present senate bill 899 – wait until you see what that’s about. The Roman Catholic Church will never allow that for their kids – even in public schools. They have that right. They pay taxes. Their hospitals and schools save the states and feds tons of money. Lawlor and McDonald degraded and slandered the Deacon’s faith and the head of FIC’s faith (both are RC) – wonder why there’s no law suit. These men were berated worse than when Brian Brown two years ago who was the head of CT Catholic Conference. He’s now with NOM – national organization for marriage. The CEO of that is Robert George, Attorney, scholar, etc.
Lawlor and McDonald got even for the opposition by the RC CHurch to their senate bill 899 (quotas for homosexuals, teaching it in the public schools, and lots of other stuff), so they had ready (something never discussed even with the judiciary committee before) senate bill 1098. This would have laypersons on a board and the priests and bishops would report to the board. Now this is unheard of in the Roman Catholic Church. The Pope is the head (dissidents can leave or be excommunicated), the Cardinals are next, then the Bishops and then the Priests who work closely with their parish but who oversee them and are in charge.
Lawlor and McDonald wanted to get inside with politically correct pals and those who would “change” the Roman Catholic Church which is craziness. You start your own church.
They used the financial and administrative objectives which were fronts to mask their real motives. They want control of what’s called the Sacraments. There are seven and these are very, very serious in The Roman Catholic Church. (Baptism, Confession (or REconciliation), Holy Communion, Confirmation, Marriage, Holy Orders (for Priests and Nuns), Last Rites (when someone is dying). Lawlor and McDonald with a group of disgruntled dissident Catholics (“voice of the faithful”) want to take charge of several Sacraments, namely Marriage for gays (which will never happen in that Church), Holy Orders to include women priests (which will never happen in that Church. John Paul II said it was not in his power to ordain women. It’s never been done anyway. And, That a priest is “in persona Christi” which literally means “in the person of Christ” and can only be a male.
This is how Jesus set up that Church with the Apostles and Peter as the head. The women had special roles in assisting the Apostles and without their prayer, devotion and service, it could not have made it. They can become nuns, etc. Most of the women have no problem with this. They can always go to other denominations that have female “pastors”). Also, without male priests there would be no valid priesthood and hence no real presence in the Holy Communion (the Eucharist: and there are Eucharistic Miracles happening all over Europe and now the USA before times of warning, punishment, etc.)
Lastly they would take over the Sacrament of Reconciliation – redefining what sin is in the Confessional so there would be false Reconciliation with God. Scripture tells to pick ourselves up each time we fall but we have to know what falling is, we seem to be in denial here.
Read the following links to see and watch the video link too. These guys Lawlor and McDonald are vindictive. It back fired and made the democrats. and CT look ridiculous in the USA, and even across the world. Watch EWTN that’s how I too am learning like ken mac. See links below. Interesting stuff.
http://www.ncregister.com/daily/author/Tom%20%20Hoopes
“Anti-Church CT: Good News/Bad News.”
And one more that’s a video.
http://carpetcity.wordpress.com/2009/03/12/sb-899-testimony-audio/
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