Previous post
Next post
It’s interesting how feminism works. Anything that offends them is grounds for SEXISM!!!, even if no one before has ever seen it that way. Who cares? A feminist says it’s SEXIST!!!, so therefore, it must be so.
The newest example of SEXISM!!! we must all be on the lookout for? Holding enlightened, feminist women to an office dress code! Apparently, some neanderthal, misogynistic boss sent the following e-mail to an employee concerning displaying cleavage:
According to Jessica, this is a problem:
Apparently this woman’s supervisor sent this charming note because someone had been complaining (!) about her showing a bit of cleavage. According to the sender, “as I’m currently 7 months pregnant, i could be wearing a turtleneck and still be showing ‘too much’ cleavage.”
Ugh.
Right. Because if you’re pregnant, it means you get to completely ignore all the requirements of your office dress code.
Look, I feel for the lady. Keeping the girls under wraps when you’re more large-chested can admittedly be a little bit difficult. However, it does not excuse her from having to follow the rules just because she’s pregnant, just like I’m not excluded from following a dress code where I work because I’m large-chested. Is this woman really that unprofessional that an employer asking an employee to rein in the cleavage a little makes her some kind of victim?! Good grief. And then on top of that, she snipes that she’d have cleavage even in a turtleneck. I’ve said the same thing a number of times, granted, but jokingly. It seems to me that this lady has a rather high opinion of herself. I mean, come on — there’s nothing on the planet that could possibly cover her up and make her look more professional? Really?? Or is it perhaps that she, like most feminists, is just a little whiner who wants special treatment?
When some of the commenters over at Feministing expressed puzzlement over why this e-mail is so bad, like me, well, they were set straight quick!
Really, you don’t understand how this is bad?
Ok, looking at this from a feminist perspective, first off, enforcing a dress code is only OK if it is enforced uniformly for all employees of any gender. Whatever men can/can’t reveal, the standards for women must be the same, and they must be clearly defined, like for example, “no one should wear any garment that exposes more than 2 inches of skin below the bottom edge of the collar bone.” Otherwise, you get cases like this of random enforcement delivered in passive-aggressive emails that say “you’re showing a little too much cleavage.”
That implies that some amount of cleavage is OK, but that there is a limit. So what is the amount? How do you measure that amount? It’s been arbitrarily defined by a supervisor, yet that standard has not been shared in this offensive email.
So what has happened is that this woman has been singled out and told that she is being held to a certain nebulous standard, one of being able to show some cleavage, but not “too much” cleavage. Thus, the reality of living in a perpetual state catch-22 (one of the patriarchy’s strongest tools) which is inherent to having a vagina is perpetuated on an individual, personal and physical level.
And that is why this is bad.
Screaming bias MikeT. I assume youre a man?
I hate things like this. A lot of bigger women, pregnant or no, don’t have a choice: plus size clothing seems to assume “if you have it, flaunt it”. Which I don’t personally mind some of the time, but many people are uncomfortable doing.
Additionally, in some situations wrap shirts and v-necks which reveal cleavage would be considered unprofessional, or even slutty: I’ve gotten overt whistles from random strangers and warning “that looks a bit sleazy” comments from my own parents.
Women shouldn’t have to be subjected to that kind of judgement. Body does not = sexuality does not = character. But it’s particularly irritating when they have little else in the way of clothing to choose from.
Personally, I would retort that, “These are a part of MY BODY. They should not be found offensive or out of place. They are attached to me, therefore, they have to be in the workplace too!”
Additionally, “I didn’t sexualize them, this society did, and apparently YOU buy into that.”
Wonderful post. Telling someone that they’ve dressed inappropriately could end really badly. I think a lot of people are assuming that she didn’t notice or didn’t care (a little nipple, seriously?!), but if she’d picked the shirt thinking it was okay, to get an obnoxious message like that could be a serious blow.
Particularly for a pregnant women, who is already facing a lot of public attention, and could be feeling a lot less than attractive or even presentable most days.
It saddens me to see so many people making assumptions in favor for the manager, when it’s just as fair to make assumptions for the woman.
I absolutely hate stuff like this. I’ve had the odd comment made to me, and it was awful. Especially because I know for a fact it wasn’t sanctioned by management or anything – it’s just some nosy woman who is jealous that I have boobs and wants me to hide them so I won’t take the male attention away from her. It’s always females who complain or make comments, never men. It’s ridiculous.
I’m pretty lucky that where I work the dress code is very loose generally (unless I’m meeting clients). So showing some cleavage doesn’t matter. If someone did send me an email like that I would either completely ignore it, or reply back in a polite way informing the person that I feel comfortable in the outfit and think it’s ok but thanks for the suggestion. I know my management would back me up.
Are you seeing a pattern in the comments here? It’s that gosh darn patriarchy trying to hold womyn and their sexuality down!! We are VICTIMS! If we want to flaunt ourselves, we should be allowed to!
But of course, as they’re flaunting themselves, they’ll whine when men ogle them and say that it’s because they’re being degraded as a sex object.
This is yet another post that just goes to show the truth about what feminism really is. Feminists like to say they want equality and the same treatment for men, and they say they want to empower women, but at every turn, we see this kind of behavior. It’s a state of perpetual victimhood where anything that pisses her off makes the behavior SEXIST!!!, and therefore must be abolished. When you read feminist blogs long enough, you start to get the feeling that modern feminists are basically a bunch of spoiled brats. If everything is not exactly how they want it, even if it has nothing whatsoever to do with equality between women and men, they throw a temper tantrum. It’s like feminism for five-year-olds.
But hey, at least I learned something new today. Requiring a women to cover up her cleavage at work? SEXIST!!!
UPDATE: Welcome Ace of Spades, The Other McCain, and Cold Fury readers!
I’ve said it before, and I’m sure this won’t be the last time – I do not see how people live with this much hate and victimhood in their lives. If I had it, I’d probably sound as ridiculous as they do.
Ok, looking at this from a feminist perspective, first off, enforcing a dress code is only OK if it is enforced uniformly for all employees of any gender. Whatever men can/can’t reveal, the standards for women must be the same, and they must be clearly defined, like for example, “no one should wear any garment that exposes more than 2 inches of skin below the bottom edge of the collar bone.” Otherwise, you get cases like this of random enforcement delivered in passive-aggressive emails that say “you’re showing a little too much cleavage.”
Who the heck talks like that? Do these feminists look at themselves naked in a mirror and not notice that there are significant differences than the opposite gender? (I guess that assumes they’ve seen it – but, even if they’ve not seen it in person, with the Internet, there really is no excuse.) In the Air Force, there are men’s uniform standards and women’s uniform standards. The uniform items are also cut differently, and women actually have more choices (skirts, pumps, etc.). Short sleeve, open-collared shirts must be worn with a t-shirt that does not show (v-neck), and must be buttoned save for the top (collar) button. If a woman can sport cleavage in that area, more power to ’em.
This really cuts to the core of the main thing I don’t understand about feminists. Why would they want clothing standards to be equal? Women’s clothing is a lot better than men’s clothing, and they look much more attractive in it than we ever would. Why not run with their strengths? If someone notices cleavage and thinks that it’s inappropriate for work, why not take that as a compliment? Guys work better when they’re not distracted, and women probably get more done when they’re not being catty about each other’s clothing.
Bob says: Just as long as they give up the right to complain about ‘sexual harassment’ if someone looks at their cleavage, I’m not seeing a problem with it. We all know that is a likely end to this story – she continues to wear low cut blouses and then writes a blog pose complaining about “that creepy guy in Accounting” that “leers at her.”
But if it was the cute guy in Finance that drives the Lexus to work, it’d be ok.
Remember, if she thinks you’re cute, it’s flirting. Otherwise it’s sexual harassment. It’s happened time and time again.
It’s a labor union. Except you don’t have to have a job to belong to it; you DO have to have a verginer; and the labor union officials are so passionate about what they do, they don’t have to be paid. If you applied those three simple changes to any labor union, you’d have feminism.
Viewed in those terms, it all makes sense. You see it isn’t that feminists should be allowed to get away with violating the dress code. It’s that, when they violate it and you blow the whistle on ’em, you are subjected to such an endless acid rain of crap that next time you’ll decide it just isn’t worth the hassle. Yeah, in the minds of some, this is what “representation” means: Someone cheerleading the notion, whether they ultimately succeed at it or not, that you and people like you shouldn’t be held to standards, but everyone else outside your clique should be.
Shannon in AZ says: Be really funny if Chris is a woman and all these feminist are assuming Chris is a man. The text leads me to believe more likely a woman.
William says: We had an ex beauty queen that used to work here at the company I work for. I’m not giving names, just in case. But, being the incredibly beautiful woman that she is, she would wear nice form fitting clothing that accented her curves. Not a big deal. Every once in a while she would wear a shirt that would reveal darn near everything she had up top if she bent over just right. Now, being a guy, I sure as heck didn’t mind (I know…flay me alive now) but she got turned in for violating our dress code by another woman and then subsequently fired for it. I can only guess it was some old hag that wished she was as hot as the woman fired. Oh well…
I R A Darth Aggie says: Showing off one’s cleavage makes me feel harrassed. Sexually harrassed.
Mat says: I’d hardly say the email’s sexist. The boss mentioned a “Linda,” so apparently, she thought this woman needed to cover up the cleavage. Of course, the feminists conveniently forgot that little part of the post.
Otherwise, it’s a typical yawner regarding feminists. That’s why I love the fact that I can ignore them when they start their harpy screeching.
This is an increasingly common problem at many companies that have become too casual. IMHO, it follows from a failure of high schools and colleges to require students to exhibit a modicum of professionalism.
I work at a university and have students showing up in class in pajamas. Sloppiness is not uncommon. Some girls routinely have their shirts unbuttoned down to a point just below their breasts, low enough to see the entirety of their cleavage. It’s unprofessional and unbecoming, and it’s embarrassing for both male professors and their male students. Worse, these girls seem to be clueless – they are neither acutely “showing off” nor making a “statement”. When they go to work, they’ll learn some important lessons about professional conduct that are verboten at a university. Pity.
Naqamel says: How much cleavage is too much?
Hmmm… somehow I don’t think it’d be hard to hire a straight guy who was willing to look at cleavage all day and decide. 😉
Flubber says: Behold the wisdom of Blake Edwards:
“You’re not after equality; you’re after some convenient feminist utopia with all of the benefits and none of the responsibilities.”
—The Great Leslie in “The Great Race”(1965).
BIg Mo says: Some years ago I had a boss who was a real looker & goregous and could wear anything well. But on the occasions that she, um, revealed her glory on accident, I was embarrased. I asked my team assistant if she would talk to the boss, because I just didn’t feel right saying, “Hey X, you’re giving me a show!”
tonynoboloney says: Was at Gandma & gampa’s Christmas party yesterday. The usual crowd, uncles, aunts, kids, nieces, nephews and others. One of the teen girls (a grand daughter) about 16 or 17 was wearing a short skirt and low top showing off her newly aquired “figure”. It was difficult to watch her move about without showing too much skin. I found myself averting my eyes or moving to another room to avoid not appearing to be a “funny uncle”. Perhaps this attire would be appropriate on a date or HS dance it was highly inappropriate at a family event, certainly not G-rated.
If my attitude and reaction make me a sexist so be it.
Veeshir says: I have to admit, I’m with the feminister, the more cleavage women show the better as far as I’m concerned.
WayneB says: The boss mentioned a “Linda,” so apparently, she thought this woman needed to cover up the cleavage.
Actually, “Linda” is probably an HR person, and the boss copied the email to her for documentation purposes.
“Whatever men can/can’t reveal, the standards for women must be the same”
Uhm, since I wear a shirt and tie, I can’t say that I show much, ahem, cleavage.
You nailed it straight! Whiny feminists make my life as a normal woman with common sense much more difficult.
Like you, I have been blessed with bounty. Dressing modestly isn’t difficult, obviously everyone knows I’ve got a chest full, but I don’t have to nakedly shove it in everybody’s face. Unless a woman works in a business (Hooters, nightclub) that actively endorses a provocative dress code, ladies should cover those puppies up appropriately. It’s not about jealousy, sexism or misogyny – It’s about decorum and respect, for yourself and the others around you.
Great post. Nice site.
gordo says: When I was a man I wasn’t offended by cleavage at work. Now that I’m a 38DD I’m in favor of showing nice cleavage. I don’t see a problem; my co-workers don’t mind and are very nice when they stop by my cubicle to chat. Although one spilled coffee down on me and I had to get a new top. He seemed to be a nervous fellow, his hands were shaking.
Because if you’re pregnant, it means you get to completely ignore all the requirements of your office dress code.
Well heck, I’ve worked in offices where if you’re pregnant, you get to completely ignore office requirements like “don’t sit around making personal phone calls and picking out furniture and wallpaper borders all day,” so I understand why she thought she didn’t need to follow a dress code.
But the comments blaming the “victim’s” cleavage on Teh Evil Patriarchal Manufacturers/Retailers–insisting women have no choice in what they buy and wear–is stupid, sexist, and demeaning (and illuminating). I can’t wear most shirts with buttons because they gape inappropriately, so I don’t wear shirts or dresses with buttons, unless they’re meant to be worn open layered over another shirt. Maybe I should be throwing a tantrum about how it’s my right to dress like trash?
Women’s clothing is a lot better than men’s clothing
Never worn women’s clothing, have you, Daniel? 🙂 Some years it’s OK, but lately it’s been a lot of sleazy fabrics and weird silhouettes unflattering to most women not built like teenage boys (except, as noted, the plus-size clothing designed to let it all hang out). Most of it is constructed very poorly, so even if you want to wear it more than one season, you can’t.
J David says: I personally consider it disrespectful to ME for women co-workers to come to work(actual work)dressing “cheap”. I don’t think it’s “cute”, and I resent even the most indirect implication that someone is going to exercise that kind of power over male co-workers (me). Men who fall into the trap(and that is what it is)of letting women co-workers mess with their heads that way are most definitely cruisin’ for a “Feministing” in a world where women now have more legal rights than they(men) do. When I see a woman at work attempting to use that kind of power red flags go up, and warning bells go off in my consciousness.
Kat says: I spent 5 years working at a CPA firm as an auditor and had a strict dress code. As in skirt suits with pantyhose everyday PLUS, get this, heels. Heels because a woman in flats just isn’t professional. She also encouraged blouses that buttoned up to your neck. The worst part of this? The writer and enforcer of the dress code was the one woman in the place.
She was a bitch who told you what hairstyles you should have. She told one of my co-workers (while I was with her) that she should dump her husband because he was only an HVAC repairman and was therefore below her. Don’t get me wrong, the male partners went along with it, even encouraged it. The best – she got fired the year after I left!
While it is bad enough to have a man set a sexist dress code, I think it is even worse to have a woman do that to other women.
Never worn women’s clothing, have you, Daniel?
I’ll never tell… 😉
But, seriously – my wife has made several apparel acquisitions over the past few months, and they’re all cooler than the stuff I have. Of course, she looks way better in them than I would look! As far as the comfort and durability goes, though, I gladly defer to you…
A few years ago, my workplace started cracking down on the dress code. I don’t suppose it will surprise you to find that the biggest scofflaws, as it were, tended to be women. They’d wear stirrup pants, or denim skirts, or baggy shorts (pretending that they were skirts, not shorts), or sandals, or tennis shoes. In any event, when the reins got tightened, no women complained. In fact, several women told me that “well, they’ve been letting me slide for a long time”, and were not surprised at the turn of events.
Look, I admire-more than admire- the feminine form as much as any red-blooded male. In fact, I admit to looking appreciatively at most specimens of womenfolk, as I think that all shapes and sizes are gorgeous. But exposing your titties at work just isn’t appropriate. It would be no more appropriate if I had my 1970s flashback and wore a wide-lapeled shirt open down to my waist. So cover them up. You don’t have to wear turtlenecks, but try to find something that doesn’t reveal the chasm between your girls. I will guarantee you that the first guy to look would be brought up on charges for sexual harassment.
What if the this womyn’s boss was herself of the fairer sex? This would be a none issue and the 2 would probably go after work, knock a few back and discuss how lovely the blouse was.
Christoph says: Censor.
30 Comments