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i guess we’re suppose to look at obama’s new pot policy in a similar fashion like viagra… if you got a problem and a doctor that is more then willing to write you a script, you can get it. period.
in the states that currently allow medical marijuana which are alaska, california, colorado, hawaii, maine, maryland, michigan, montana, nevada, new mexico, oregon, rhode island, vermont and washington, federal drug agents won’t pursue you or your supplier.
this shouldn’t surprise us really because obama loves weed and seems to use it like i use gardening. here’s what he said about it on background in his book ‘dreams from my father’:
“I had learned not to care. I blew a few smoke rings, remembering those years. Pot had helped, and booze; maybe a little blow when you could afford it. Not smack, though….
Junkie. Pothead. That’s where I’d been headed: the final, fatal role of the young would-be black man. Except the highs hadn’t been about that, me trying to prove what a down brother I was. Not by then, anyway. I got high for just the opposite effect, something that could push questions of who I was out of my mind, something that could flatten out the landscape of my heart, blur the edges of my memory. I had discovered that it didn’t make any difference whether you smoked reefer in the white classmate’s sparkling new van, or in the dorm room of some brother you’d met down at the gym, or on the beach with a couple of Hawaiian kids who had dropped out of school and now spent most of their time looking for an excuse to brawl. … You might just be bored, or alone. Everybody was welcome into the club of disaffection.”
so if marijuana helps with that ‘medical’ condition you can have it. but if you want it just to become a member of the ‘club of disaffection’, it’s still off limits, baby. maybe this is the explaination for obama’s dithering disaffection on afghanistan.
by the way if you don’t live in one of the above mentioned states or don’t want to find a greedy quack doctor to prescribe weed for your ‘problem’ you should write the people you put in congress and tell them to get with it — you know, the ones who were the pot smoking radicals of the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s who now run the country. they are obviously not doing their job.
Ken says: Beleive it or not this is one of those topics that I am about 51% against, 49% for. It’s tough because I get to see what can happen to drug addicts. At the same time, police don’t have to fight many potheads when they arrest them, nor are there many (they do exist, but not many) arrests for people high on marijuana slamming into a family of 5 on the way home from the movies, like alcohol.
Probably the one thing that makes me want to keep it illegal is the fear that kids will then think that other drugs are not harmful either. After working in a school for 3 1/2 years I can tell you that kids draw their conclusions from some pretty weird places. I had one girl who was completely convinved that all that stuff about cigarettes and cancer were just used to scare kids and there was no connection between the two.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
That being said it is becoming harder and harder to argue against its legalization. I know, I know, but that’s just my 2 cents.
Well as an avid dope smoker myself, I’m all in favor of Obama’s change in policy. But, even if I didn’t smoke dope, I think I would find it ridiculous to arrest people who are sick for using marijuana.
You want to help kids and society? Do something about rampant alcoholism in this country! Do something about obesity and junk food!
Marijuana is innocuous.
As Ken points out in his post, and I can vouch for this, having a friend who is a cop, when the police get a call about kids smoking dope, they don’t worry too much. But if those same cops get a call about a bunch of drunks causing trouble, they call for back up.
In Portland, marijuana is de facto legal anyway.
I have a friend who came home one night to find that her house was burglarized. Fearing that the burglars might still be in her home, she called the police to come investigate. An officer arrived and together they went through her residence. As they went room to room, my friend was terrified to see that she had left a bag of marijuana sitting on top of her bedroom dresser in plain sight. She couldn’t hide it away with the officer right beside her, so she held her breath and hoped that he wouldn’t notice it.
After a thorough inspection of the house, they found that the burglars had taken some beer out of the refrigerator and a little cash. “It was probably some teenage kids,” the officer concluded. “But it’s odd that they didn’t take your pot.”
Marsha says: As a kid (ages 7-9) I regularly smoked dope with my mom who used it for her bone cancer pain. After she died I went to live with her sister, my aunt, and didn’t do it anymore. One thing I clearly remember in the months that followed my move here to Florida was that I was hooked on smoking pot as an elementary kid. My cravings were terrible. I don’t want to see marijuana made easier to get for kids because they have a bunch of pot heads for parents who get it for non-reasons. I am really against this. Who wants to see high 10 year olds? Geez people.
Marsha says: “Who wants to see high 10 year olds? Geez people.”
Well, who wants to see drunk 10 year olds? No one. So should we have another go at Prohibition?
Doesn’t matter what the law says anyway. If people wanna get stoned, they’re going to get stoned. And, please, no moral judgments.
Tell me, why are some mind-altering drugs (anti-depressants, caffeine, nicotine) legal and socially acceptable, while marijuana is not?
Marsha says: As I read back my comment, I don’t want you to get the wrong idea of my mother. She didn’t condone my smoking. I use to sneak from her stash.
lisab says: just fyi … marijuana use, as low as five doses, has been found to be followed by up to a 600% increase in schizophrenia.
lisab says: oh, before you smokers get all in a snit, i did not find that
the british medical journal did
so take it up with them
Ken says: “marijuana use, as low as five doses, has been found to be followed by up to a 600% increase in schizophrenia.”
And it’s things like what lisa said that make me hesitate. I definitely think it warrants looking into, that’s all. Let’s get a real discussion going about the facts of using marijuana.
“After a thorough inspection of the house, they found that the burglars had taken some beer out of the refrigerator and a little cash. “It was probably some teenage kids,” the officer concluded. “But it’s odd that they didn’t take your pot.”
Now THAT’S funny!!
PenniePan says: President Obama did what other presidents didn’t have the balls to do because they were afraid of Kate’s friends, the religious right. Marsha you are ignorant. Your story is isolated and about your own sad little experience. Kids all across this country drink from their parents legal stash. That’s a much bigger problem for all of us. Good job Ken and Dade for pointing that out.
PenniePan says: Lisa you are the biggest pothead around so pipe down.
lisab says: pennie you are the only druggie loser here.
if you do not like the british medical journals findings, take it up with them.
Ken says: “Good job Ken and Dade for pointing that out.”
Pennie my posts were based on my personal experiences just like Marsha’s. Lisa’s comment was based on a medical journal finding, and you respond with trashing them and telling them to pipe down. Can you EVER have a civilized and mature conversation about any topic?
It’s truly pathetic.
Scarlett says: I’ve regularly smoked pot since I was 17. There are no adverse affects Lisa. I am not a schetzo (though you should be checked). Ken is a policeman right? If he says he’s conflicted that should tell you that it’s time to legalize. Why don’t you concentrate on FAT AMERICA Kate if you’re going to get on a fricken soapbox.
My feelings about this are mixed. I’ve seen friends on chemo use pot to settle the unbearable nausea. My own husband was diagnosed with glaucoma at age 40 – and it was nearly impossible to control with any of the meds available. We seriously considered using pot since the only choice we seemed to be facing was the loss of his sight. Thankfully we found a combo of meds at double their normal doses that got it under control. And thankfully medical advances allowed for laser surgery a few years later. He still takes the eye drops 3x a day.
And if our choice remained pot or blindness – I know what we’d choose.
Jane says: Well Kris you just proved the point of why it should be legal. It does has medicinal properties. Those of you who reject the legalization of marijuana need to come out of the stone-age with your conservative brethren Ken and Kris.
“As Ken points out in his post, and I can vouch for this, having a friend who is a cop, when the police get a call about kids smoking dope, they don’t worry too much. But if those same cops get a call about a bunch of drunks causing trouble, they call for back up.”
Yet theres tons of irrefutable evidence that pot destroys the developing minds of minors.
“Well, who wants to see drunk 10 year olds? No one. So should we have another go at Prohibition?”
Legalizing booze has made teenage alcoholism one of this countrys biggest problems. Far greater than it was during prohibition. Legalizing pot could well create an easier avenue of acces for kids
“Tell me, why are some mind-altering drugs (anti-depressants, caffeine, nicotine) legal and socially acceptable, while marijuana is not?”
Because the national legalization of pot could have serious effects on society as a whole, its implications go way further than nicotine but not as far as alcohol. Anti depressents are a control psycotropic drug not available like tobacco or coffee, for damn good reasons. over doses or cross addictions with any of these drugs will ruin a mind permanently
I’m for legalization. I’ve done time for simple possesion, I get it.
I’ve also done tons of research on this issue.
But theres a host of questions that need to be addressed as to what legalization would look like. Will the states make it more costly than when it was illegal ?
Will marijuana addiction rates (psychological addiction) rise as they did in the Netherlands once it was legalized ? Call it a gateway drug or whatever you want there are studies supporting the fact that around 75% of juveniles who’ve used pot do in fact expirement with other drugs later in life.
I say we let California with its diverse demographics be the guinea pig for what legalization would look like in a substantialy populated society.
Jane.
Because something has medicinal properties is not the reason to let the population at large have access to it.
Ken says: “But theres a host of questions that need to be addressed as to what legalization would look like.”
Exactly, Micky. Let’s not be in a rush just so people can sit around and get high. There are still a lot of questions and concerns. Instead of insulting people, like our regular lefty trolls, let’s think of the problems and talk about how we can solve them.
Because like it or not, until those concerns are addressed, it will not be legalized. All I hear from the left is how ignorant people are who don’t want it legalized. That’s not gonna cut it.
David says: I agree with Marsha.
DADE!! NOW IT’S ALL CLEAR. YOU’RE A POT SMOKING POT HEAD!? THAT EXPLAINS ALL! DAMN! And your flippant attitude about the law and such?? Wow.
David says: Scarlett, you say you’re not “schezo”, yet your rambling post was all over the place.
ergo…
Someone check the alignment of the stars, ’cause I find myself in agreement with Ken and Micky both, on the same day!
I agree that society should not condone marijuana use by minors. Just as we don’t condone the use of alcohol by minors. Nonetheless, minors are using and will continue to use both substances regardless.
So, if we examine Obama’s policy on this issue, I think this might be one area where many on the so-called left and right can agree: it makes no sense to expend resources prosecuting persons who are using marijuana to treat their illnesses.
David says: Ken & Micky. I agree that legal or illegal – I don’t have a dog in that hunt, per se. I just hope that it’s not made legal for $$ (taxes) without establishing its possible negatives. …BUT right now it’s illegal so I expect (most) people to respect that situation/condition.
If it’s deemed legal for medical purposes, so be it. There’s lots of drugs that are legal per prescription.
It appears to me that the Administration’s position on MEDICAL marijuana in states that deem it acceptable is showing some respect for states rights, FINALLY.
We’ll see what else comes of it.
Whats really sad is that this has been approached from a civil rights perspective since the 60s and before only to find out that the reason they want it legalized is only becasuse they are broke.
And then theres this…
But alas, the answer from Camp Obama was — as it has been for years — a flat one-liner: “President-elect Obama is not in favor of the legalization of marijuana.” And at least two of Obama’s top people are drug-war supporters: Rahm Emanuel has been a long-time enemy of reform, and Joe Biden is a drug-war mainstay who helped create the position of “drug czar.”
http://www.esquire.com/the-side/richardson-report/obama-marijuana-legalization-122308#ixzz0UQM4W9O0
BO;
” I have to say that there was one question that was voted on that ranked fairly high and that was whether legalizing marijuana would improve the economy — (laughter) — and job creation. And I don’t know what this says about the online audience — (laughter) — but I just want — I don’t want people to think that — this was a fairly popular question; we want to make sure that it was answered. The answer is, no, I don’t think that is a good strategy — (laughter) — to grow our economy. (Applause.) ”
As anyone can see I wouldnt count on Obama to take an absolute stance on this like many of the other issues hes been vague about, lied, or simply hasnt come thru on yet.
I omitted the link because moderation here wont allow it.
Obamas statements were quoted in Esquire magazine.
———————————————–
Whats really sad is that this has been approached from a civil rights perspective since the 60s and before only to find out that the reason they want it legalized is only becasuse they are broke.
And then theres this…
But alas, the answer from Camp Obama was — as it has been for years — a flat one-liner: “President-elect Obama is not in favor of the legalization of marijuana.” And at least two of Obama’s top people are drug-war supporters: Rahm Emanuel has been a long-time enemy of reform, and Joe Biden is a drug-war mainstay who helped create the position of “drug czar.”
BO;
” I have to say that there was one question that was voted on that ranked fairly high and that was whether legalizing marijuana would improve the economy — (laughter) — and job creation. And I don’t know what this says about the online audience — (laughter) — but I just want — I don’t want people to think that — this was a fairly popular question; we want to make sure that it was answered. The answer is, no, I don’t think that is a good strategy — (laughter) — to grow our economy. (Applause.) ”
As anyone can see I wouldnt count on Obama to take an absolute stance on this like many of the other issues hes been vague about, lied, or simply hasnt come thru on yet.
” I just hope that it’s not made legal for $$ (taxes) without establishing its possible negatives. ”
Thats the big question. Will it be worth it ?
We tax tobacco and booze at hundreds of percentages over what the wholesale cost is. If we do this with marijuana will people actually be willing to pay the retail market price ?
People will grow their own.
The state will creat legislation and more severe penalties for growing so they can “FORCE” people to buy off the retail market.
SCHIPS is the perfect example.
They raised taxes on tobacco to pay for the program. Consequently less people bought tobacco, or quit smoking.
SCHIPS never got the revenues they were looking for.
“Why don’t you concentrate on FAT AMERICA Kate if you’re going to get on a fricken soapbox.”
Pot makes you eat alot
lisab says: “My feelings about this are mixed. I’ve seen friends on chemo use pot to settle the unbearable nausea.”
if you are on chemo, the risk of developing schizophrenia may not be the worst of your problems.
like all drugs, there is a balance between risk and reward. there is roughly a 3 to 6% chance of developing schizophrenia. i am not sure, but i would bet morphine and other narcotics have similar if not greater risks.
not that i am pro-marijuana mind you, just hash brownies for thought. the relative benefit of marijuana as compared to other drugs is disputed, but should not be ignored out of hand.
gene says: this is obama’s america now. no going back.
lisab says: oh there could be going back …
if obamacare passes and people catch on that they have to pay high taxes for four years with none of the bennies until 2013 … i expect it will all be overturned minutes after 2010.
“this is obama’s america now. no going back.”
Pfft.
After centuries of cyclatic returns from one system to another these people are so delusional that they think this adminstration will be the end all answer to everything.
Like a dictatorship.
Ken says: “this is obama’s america now. no going back.”
Keep thinking that gene. It makes things so much easier.
PenniePan says: Ken you must be a closet pothead. You start the thread off by basically supporting legalization then you bash it. Conflicted Ken? You’re not the law and order and safe little conservative you pretend to be. Loser.
Pennie.
Adults who support legalization, mostly the ones with kids, have questions they want answered before we go forward.
The key word there is “adults”
We saw what happened with prohibition where the side effecys went mostly to crime.
Weve also seen what happened when prohibition was lifted.
We ended up with the largest population of drunk teenagers ever in history.
Of course I guess if you’d just toss a baby in a dumpster you wouldnt care too much about teenage developing minds either
Pennie.
Everyone on this thread except for you came into it being very congenial and maintaining a decent decorum.
So far you’ve been the only one to start with your name calling.
You’ve called Marsha and Ken “loser”, “ignorant”, and went after Lisab and told her to pipe down for contributing to the topic.
You just cant give a decent conversation a chance can you ?
You’re for legalization yet when it suits your returdedness you call people “potheads” as if its a bad thing to use if you’re on the right.
Yeah, these people may be stoned. It does impair judgement and cognition.
Sooo, are you a “pothead”? And if not, whats your excuse ?
Ken says: “You start the thread off by basically supporting legalization then you bash it. Conflicted Ken?”
Not at all. In fact, please tell me where I bash it, Pennie. Please quote where I am bashing it, I’d love to see this you delusional wretch. Just because I have questions about it does not mean I am bashing it. You truly are one of the most pathetic and ignorant people I’ve ever seen.
“You’re not the law and order and safe little conservative you pretend to be.”
Oh but I am. And you are certainly the paranoid delusional, pig ignorant, hate filled, leftist that you portray yourself as.
“Loser.”
If you are the measure of what a “winner” is, then I take that as a compliment, thanks very much.
I hate to step on Kate’s blog, so, Kate forgive me if I’m being discourteous, but I’ve written a post on my blog about this topic. I’d love for any of you to read it and comment.
http://dadecariaga.blogspot.com/2009/10/about-that-pot-thing.html
Micky,
I must say I am quite impressed with your arguments. Sincerely. I didn’t know that Rahm Emanuel had opposed ganja reform, nor that Biden was such a drug war zealot.
I agree with you that, since those are the 2 highest placed officials in the administration besides Obama himself, it does not bode well for reasonable, moderate reform.
I know you won’t like to hear this, but all I can say is this: Maybe Obama will come through.
Maybe.
And my only reason for supporting him is that I for one know whats its like to be locked up for three months for one joint.
Many of the clients I deal with have had their lives ruined because of laws like the possesion ones. Thy must do either the time or complete stipulated treatment.
If that person does in fact suffer from the psychological addiction to pot I see 1 year of residential treatment as a waste of bed space that could be used for those with addictions to truly life threatening addictions. Pot dependency can be treated sucessfully with out patient formats instead of having to lose his job, house, car etc from being locked up in a facility for a year.
Theres still a whole bunch of questions I want answered before we legalize it and unfortunately the only way to answer those questions is to see what legalization would look like in a well populated society with diverse demographics such as California.
For example.
if the state taxes pot to the extent that its cheaper still to buy it on the street we may still have problems.
When legalized people will generaly see it as some sort of validation of its benign status. Consequently we’ll see a rise in consumption. And maybe more cases of parents giving it to there kids because being legal may mean its less harmful to them.
I’m not betting too much on Obama being very expeditious about this since he seems to take his sweet time about everything else. Carter had the same opportunity and backed out for fear of loosing too much political capital so maybe what were looking at is some kind of teaser to keep the faith of one particular base that no doubt is getting a little impatient with him on things like Gitmo, the war,dont ask dont tell.
We shall see. if he does it before the next campaign starts I’ll be impressed. Otherwise I think he’ll be using it as another campaign promise in the context that “weve come this far, so it wont be long, elect me and I’ll have the time to get it thru.” I can almost hear it now.
The amount of people approving of and/or smoking is around 44% right now. People over time have had the chance to see that pot is not the anti christ incarnate and generations have been able to weed out the “reefer madness” induced paranoias weve seen for so long.
Ken.
I run into the same thing all the time.
As soon as you ask any question that voices concern you’re automatically called a bigoted ignorant prohibitionist.
Theres people out there that dont realize that no drug is without its dangers and are quite content to dismiss any evidence that shows that just so they can get high.
They dont understand that by denying theres any risk and trying to present it as being totally harmless they create a mood of disbelief among those they’re trying to sell their argument to. If they just admitted the shortcomings from the beginning so that solutions could be brought to deal with it the movement would of progressed a lot further than it has in the last 40 years
Micky,
Your concerns about legalization are legitimate and rational. And I agree with you that if Obama were to make an effort for reform before the next presidential campaign, that would be impressive. But, like you, I’m not holding my breath.
You’re also right about the changed perceptions of marijuana in the general public.
It seems to me that limited federal law enforcement resources are better spent finding terror cells or heroin traffickers or corrupt Wall Street shysters than chasing after stoners.
How encouraging that we agree on something!
well i suppose i am at odds with most of you. i really do not want to see marijuana legalized for a variety of reasons.
i think the last thing our society needs is one more mind-numbing escape. for those of you who regularly indulge that’s fine – i mean no disrespect – but there are many out there who do not function well being a regular pothead. i live in oregon too where a pot plant grows in every other garden (so to speak) and know many who are a little less then they could be because of their habit.
we haven’t done well by our kids and alcoholism. i don’t want to see stoned kids – anymore then we see now. i am afraid of that.
i also think the use of marijuana for legitimate medical reasons is wrong. we have pain therapy treatments that are more effective.
this may sound completely idealistically, conservatively dopey – no pun intended – but we don’t need marijuana in our lives on a regular basis. there are so many other wonderful things in life to enjoy.
Well, Kate, whether or we need marijuana in our lives on a regular basis, the fact is that it IS in our lives on a regular basis.
The point of the administration’s policy is, I think, one that you can agree with: we have limited law enforcement resources. Let’s use them to address the more serious problems we have (financial malfeasance? identity theft? narcotics trade?) rather than squander them on prosecuting sick people who use marijuana to treat their symptoms.
I understand Kate.
But as it stands if we reach a point where the majority of the country after 40 years or so has come to a majority, at least in one state, ( Ca. is at 44%)we should give that a trial run just to see how it goes. Some other states like Utah are probably never going to go for it. But if Ca, proves it can put those fears to rest then I see no point in begruding them. I’d rather see people get this as a right instead of it being just because Ca. needs the money. That approach could be really dangerous down the road with other issues.
One of my biggest concerns is what the compounding of pot in an already booze legal society will look like. Weve already got drunks on the road and even though pot does not dissorient one as much as booze its still an added dangerous component to the streets. The percentage of those not at a 100% rising on the road is not an inviting thought. Then again, we dont know, having pot on the legal market could reduce the number of drunk drivers on the road as many may switch from one to the other.
Once I find out that use and addiction rates do increase for minors, or anyone as a result of legalization all bets are off. Its just not worth it
dade i understand your thinking on this but if you continue that reasoning, should all “petty” crimes go unanswered by law enforcement as well because of bigger worse crimes? where does it all lead?
we have serious drug problem in this country. i’m just worried about kids.
micky once the horse is out of the barn, there is no going back. we have an addictive society so why risk it? i am never going to be convinced this is a good thing.
Ken says: “i’m just worried about kids.”
Competely understandabe, and that’s the main reservation I have.
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