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Today, John Hawkins put up a post at Right Wing News about Feministing Executive Editor Jessica Valenti’s new book, The Purity Myth.
Last night on instant messenger, a female friend of mine sent me a link to a new book that Jessica Valenti over at Feministing is coming out with. Yes, believe it or not, this apparently isn’t some sort of off-the-wall parody — it’s a real book[.]
After sending me the link, my friend’s comment was, “What is it with feminists and wanting to turn America’s teenagers into raging whores?”
Good question.
Yeah, that would be me. Here’s what the book cover looks like:
Sigh. Where to even begin.
For what its worth, Jessica seems to have an obsession with sluttiness. She has some kind of particular aversion to girls practicing abstinence, or at the very least, not wallowing in the hook-up culture that dominates high schools and colleges today. According to Jessica, shirts that say things like “Future Wife” and “Virgins are Hot” are SEXIST!! (how shocking). She also hates purity balls. She hated this article from Time Magazine. Here’s an excerpt Jessica featured and called “creepy”:
Kylie Miraldi has come from California to celebrate her 18th birthday tonight. She’ll be going to San Jose State on a volleyball scholarship next year. Her father, who looks a little like Superman, is on the dance floor with one of her sisters; he turns out to be Dean Miraldi, a former offensive lineman with the Philadelphia Eagles. When Kylie was 13, her parents took her on a hike in Lake Tahoe, Calif. “We discussed what it means to be a teenager in today’s world,” she says. They gave her a charm for her bracelet–a lock in the shape of a heart. Her father has the key. “On my wedding day, he’ll give it to my husband,” she explains. “It’s a symbol of my father giving up the covering of my heart, protecting me, since it means my husband is now the protector. He becomes like the shield to my heart, to love me as I’m supposed to be loved.”
Creepy? I thought it was sweet. Jessica’s response?
Are families who don’t expect their daughters to promise their virginity to their dads promoting sex for 12 year-olds? Can’t dads be engaged in the lives of their daughters without worrying about the state of their hymen? And is telling women that their moral compass lays in between their legs really setting the bar high?
She didn’t mind an article from Salon.com bragging about how awesome casual hook-ups are. The writer gleefully recounts the many one-night stands “several night stands” she’s had as if it’s a positive thing:
I’m a 24-year-old member of the hookup generation — I’ve had roughly three times as many hookups as relationships — and, like innumerable 20-somethings before me, I’ve found that casual sex can be healthy and normal and lead to better adult relationships. I don’t exactly advocate picking up guys at frat parties and screwing atop the keg as the path to marital bliss. It’s just that hookup culture is not the radical extreme it is so frequently mischaracterized as in the media. There is sloppy stranger sex among people my age, sure, but sometimes hooking up is regular sex with a casual acquaintance; sometimes it’s innocent making out or casually dating or cuddling, and, oftentimes, it involves just one person at a time. In a sense it’s all very old-fashioned — there’s just a lot more unattached sex involved.
That, my friends, is Jessica Valenti’s example of “healthy” sexuality, remarking:
Some of you may already know that I’m working on a book about this culture of purity and chastity, and how it’s America’s obsession with virginity, not Girls Gone Wild and hooking up, that’s fucking young women up.
So, I’ll say it again.
Why is it so many feminists are so obsessed with turning teenage girls into raging whores? How is that something you tell girls they should aspire to? Sleeping around is not a good thing. Even if you take the emotional aspect out, it’s not physically healthy. There’s a reason that 1 in 4 teenage girls has an STD. I guess that doesn’t matter to Jessica, because hey, obviously as long as you practice “safe sex” you’ll NEVER get an STD! Condoms are absolutely foolproof, so hey, screw whoever you want. There won’t be any consequences. Right?
Oh, wait, apparently that’s not working out too good for teenage girls.
You would think, if for no other reason, you’d want to tell girls to rein it in if for no other reason than to safeguard their health. But hey, telling girls to be pure is really the problem. Girls Gone Wild culture is healthy, telling girls to keep their legs together is not.
Yeah, that’s the advice of a sane, rational person with girls’ well-being at heart.
See, for feminists like Jessica it’s not good enough to say it’s your choice when it comes to sex. Modern feminism isn’t about choice though, is it? No, Jessica and her ilk have to make everyone else act the exact same way they do. Is it to validate their own choices? I’d wager a bet on that, although if that is the truth, it would be the strongest argument against the point that Jessica is making.
Look, I’m not about to say that anyone who has premarital sex is a slut, or that if you have had a lot of sex it means you’re a terrible person. I am saying that spreading your shit like you’re Samantha on Sex and the City is not healthy and it’s not something you should be telling teenage girls they should be emulating.
And yes, fathers should be talking to their daughters about sex. While Jessica seems to think that the implication is that talking to their daughters about sex is the only way fathers can be involved in their daughters’ lives, that’s not the point at all. Fathers — and mothers — are supposed to be helping their children to grow, to learn, prepare them to make good choices. That includes sex. And telling your twelve-year-old, “You know what? You’re a smart kid. Do whatever is right for YOU!” is ludicrous. A girl that young simply does not have the maturity to make that kind of decision on her own! Her parents are supposed to guide her, and I personally find purity balls great ways to do that. To me, a purity ball is not teaching a girl that sex is something dirty or cheap (although telling her that she should hook up with whoever she wants certainly does). It tells her that sex is something sacred and special, and that it’s not something that she should give away to just anyone. Even if she has sex before she gets married, it’s a lesson she’ll likely carry on throughout her life. And how can you possibly argue that a girl who has limited partners is worse off than a girl who screws any guy who’ll buy her a few at a bar or flirt with her in class at college? And if respect and empowerment for herself is not a good enough reason to teach a girl to abstain, then the willpower required should be. Doing whatever you feel like whenever you feel like it makes for a very weak person, indeed. It doesn’t take strength or character to just do “whatever makes you feel good”.
I honestly think that what most of this is about when it comes to feminists like Jessica is self-loathing… you know, misery loves company and all. I can’t help but see someone extremely misguided, bitter, and angry in Jessica and the feminists like her. What’s truly pathetic is that they aren’t content with screwing up their own lives. No… they’ve got to ruin the lives of American teenage girls as well.
Maybe I should just write a book called “The Feminism Myth: How Feminists’ Obsession with Slutting Around is Hurting Young Women”. See, feminism did not come around as a vehicle for women to be able to have on-demand birth control and abortions, or sleep around like horndog men. And to have the values that the mothers of feminism stood for perverted by women who claim to be fighting for women’s rights is a myth, indeed.
Larry Sheldon says: Interesting that site uses, as decorations, the silhouettes that truck drivers put on their mudflaps.
I just popped over here from Rachel Lukas’ blog and what’s the first thing I see? A post behind which I can get 150%. Now I’m going to have to spend the next couple of days reading your blog so I can catch up. Good thing I’ve got Bookmarks!!!
I suspect all this might have something to do with the leftist obsession with all things being equal. If humans BEHAVE like animals, then they cannot BE any better than animals. If humans are equal to animals, then what right have we to control them, eat them, cage them, keep them in our homes, etc. In addition, all the standards and morals we’ve been taught (i.e., Christian/Catholic doctrine) is rendered obsolete.
“Maybe I should just write a book called ‘The Feminism Myth: How Feminists’ Obsession with Slutting Around is Hurting Young Women’ ”
Well, it certainly doesn’t hurt the women who slut around with the noble Sisyphus. Does them alot of good, frankly. Ahem.
I think self-loathing hits the nail on the head.
From what I understand Jessica is a bit promiscuous and wrote about it in her previous book. I would theorize that she is a little jealous of those girls/women who can practice abstinence.
Kind of reminds me of Jessica’s follow feminist Amynda Marcotte who got offended by word “promiscuous”.
http://voxday.blogspot.com/2007/08/offended-by-english.html
Kevin M says: Feminists seem intent on denying one simple fact of human reproduction: It takes, on average, 16-20 years of “parental oversight” to see that one’s offspring has a chance of survival in the human world.
That’s called a “family.”
Whether you f-ing like it or not!
Human beings are not starfish or elephants or trout or salamanders.
We take longer to mature than any other species on the planet.
Now, when you denigrate the family, you denigrate the opportunity for a human’s offspring to mature responsibly (no matter how you define the term).
Feminists are as against the concept of the family (patriarchical or matriarchical) as liberals are against national defense.
So when you relegate the human male as nothing more than a sperm donor, and the human female as THE PENULTIMATE CONCEPT OF THE HUMAN BEING, you basically condemn her to raise her offspring independently of the male (provided he provides financial support).
Hence, the slut culture blossoms from their invidious agenda.
But, of course, I am merely a sperm-donor pig without a molecule of common sense. Don’t bother to listen to me. I had two parents. What the hell do I know? It is even ludicrous that I am even capable of loving my own offspring.
There has never, in the history of the world, been a force more anti-female (not even Islam!) that has been more retrograde in its impact on the human female, than feminism.
Knott Buyinit says: Here’s a simple mental experiment that Jessica Valenti and her ilk can perform to see that they are being typical feminist idiots, begging for even more of that which they spend their lives railing against:
1. Other than her father, imagine the type of man that Jessica Valenti would not like running her life, much less the world.
2. Once you have done that, imagine the type of female behavior that such a man would prefer.
Knott Buyinit says: Here’s a simple mental experiment that Jessica Valenti and her ilk can perform to see that they are being typical feminist idiots, begging for even more of that which they spend their lives railing against:
1. Other than her father, imagine the type of man that Jessica Valenti would not like running her life, much less the world.
2. Once you have done that, imagine the type of female behavior that such a man would prefer.
Andrew says: Here we go again with the Feminazi’s attacking traditional Christian sexual morality.
I simply don’t get it. Feminists like to complain about rape. But how many less rapes would there be if more young men believed that to have sex with a girl you must repect her and be committed to her?Many guys feel like girls owe them sex just for going on a date with them.
If we want to see the end of the “rape culture”, women need to do thier part and stop sleeping with scumbags. I try to do my part by being a resoectful, committed guy who wants to get married. Too bad feminists see the conservtive man as Satan.
Because if there’s one culture in this world obsessed with virginity, it’s America, where pop culture is filth and girls are entering high school already having had sex.
Not that other culture (I forget the name!) where deflowered virgins are stoned to death and women get “hymen reconstruction surgery.” Noooope. They clearly have the healthy attitude toward virginity.
Andrew says: I do agree though that there can be an unhealthy obsession with virginity. I know a lot of girls who made committments to be virgins until they are married, but then screw up one time and then give up on sexual morals all together. We need to remember that God is forgiving in this area.
smg45acp says: Slutting around is terribly unhealthy emotionally, but since you can’t see or prove emotions the liberals reject that argument.
Slutting around is also physically unhealthy. This can be proved beyond any argument.
It boggles my mind that women that would never dream of drinking out a stranger’s glass are willing to let that same stranger stick their filthy dick in them.
Go read any medical encyclopedia’s section of the various sexually transmitted diseases and you won’t want to shake hands with strangers for a month, much less screw them.
Fred Pennsylvania says: It’s not all girls, either. I had a comparable talk about sex with my teenaged son, stressing the importance of committment, love, and maturity. But the most important thing I stressed is that, until you are old enough and employed enough to support a child, you’re not truly prepared to take part in the act that nature intended to produce one. I’m all for marriage, and have been in a very happy one for 28 years. But irresponsible reproduction is just that last link in the “raging whores” culture — a culture that debases humanity, and serves no one well.
(I linked in from “Conservative Grapevine.” As The Watcher says, “I’m going to have to spend the next couple of days reading your blog so I can catch up.”
I am sick and tired of the feminist machine. They do not speak for me. Promiscuity and abortion are not the definition of women
Horndog Man says: See, feminism did not come around as a vehicle for women to be able to have on-demand birth control and abortions, or sleep around like horndog men.
Hey, whad I do?
Ironwolf32 says: This reminds me of a conversation that I had with two young 15 year old ladies in a gym hot tub. I was about 27 and only slightly less foolish than I am now.
It was the second time I had seen them in the tub in about a month, so they were at least a little familiar with me. The conversation went from idle chatter, to talking about them hoping to get asked to either a junior or senior prom at their school. Then it went into what to do on that night if they get asked… Then came the question, “When is it the right time to lose your virginity?”
I am not sure why they asked me this, but for whatever reason they put their trust in me.
I answered them with this, “There are 2 questions that you need to ask yourself to know if you are ready. The first, are you ready to spend the rest of your life with this other person? The second, are you ready to raise a child?”
They were stunned as it showed on their faces. I think they listened. They probably were surprised at my answer. Not sure what happened with them, but I hope it helped them out. I am glad that I wasn’t giving them advice like this Jessica Valenti would have.
Charity says: From the comments at Feministing: “The world is a better place because you write books. Thank-you!” [shudders]
mare says: Yes, Cassy you do need to write that book.
.R.J. Best says: Fascinating. These neanderthal horndogs are advising against their own interests. It shows there are some good guys who come to this site. Look across the animal kingdom and you will see that males are so naturally driven they will kill or be killed for sex. Men are more tame than most animals, but barely. Traditionally, women have controlled sex. Women have decided when, where and with whom. If women as a group decide there are no controls or boundaries on sex, where are we headed as a society? As a neanderthal who drools over Cassy’s picture, part of me says, “Bring it on!”
Sally says: Comment 15
“When is it the right time to lose your virginity?”
“I answered them with this, “There are 2 questions that you need to ask yourself to know if you are ready. The first, are you ready to spend the rest of your life with this other person? The second, are you ready to raise a child?””
And what about the question, “Your virginity is the one thing that is in your power to give of yourself. Once you give it you can never ever get it back. Do you really want to LOSE it and throw it away or let it be your choice to give it in Love.”
You don’t get do overs when you meet that one person that you could have given, in love, that one precious part of you to.
Eric says: My evil plan to free the inner-tramps from all those hot prudish girls is coming to fruition. Women shouldn’t be expected to hold up to the pressures of being virgins. It’s too hard, obviously, for women to hold themselves in such high esteem, for so long a period of time.
I also would like to know, why take the demotion and call it equality?
Christy says: Hard to believe we have to even have these arguments -wowza
rblack says: The reasons for the feminists posistion are simple.
1. Women who wait until marriage are more likely to have non-adversarial relationships with men. Trusting men is evil.
2. Women who wait until marriage are more likely to vote Republican. Republicans are evil.
3. Women who wait until marriage are less likely to be poor. Rich people are evil.
4. Women who wait until marriage are more likely stay married. Marriage is evil.
5. Women who wait until marriage are more likely to marry men. Men are evil.
6. Women who wait until marriage are more likely to be religious. Religion is evil.
So, you see, it is clear what the feminists are concerned about you evil, rich, Republican, married, religious men and you evil women who trust them.
Eryn says: Sigh. Maybe you should look up feminism on wikipedia before you go around making claims about it. You show a gross misunderstanding of who feminists are and what they are trying to accomplish. Furthermore, not all feminists are the same. To lump them all into one category and say they are trying to turn “America’s teenagers into raging whores” is a ridiculous hyperbole.
Abby says: It makes me cry that there are people–women, no less–out there who believe this stuff. Makes me glad I’m getting a degree that will be valid anywhere in the world, so that if–God forbid–people like this take over my country, I can leave, instead of being subjected to their desecration of the Constitution and of human rights.
And of course, on the side of your anti-woman (which is what an anti-feminist really is, as _all feminism means is “equality for women”_), fascist, hateful page is a woman in a fairly skimpy bikini, and one of her in a revealing tank top. If I’m as weak as the Religious Wrong wants me to believe, I must be unable to help myself, and incredibly turned on by said picture. Indeed, I would have to immediately run off, pull out my vibrator (http://store.babeland.com/vibrators-top-picks/laya-spot-assorted-colors, in pink), and masturbate.
Fortunately, I do have some self-control, and am only turned on by my girlfriend. Don’t worry though, she’s transgender and pre-operative, so we’re doing it the way you think God intended. And I’m on birth control, and we use condoms, and if I were to get pregnant, we’re prepared to deal with it, thanks. And to spend the rest of our lives together.
Your hate sickens me. I only hope you realize that it’s liberals who have fought for your right to free speech. And prayer. I’m a card-carrying ACLU member, and you better believe they defend things I disagree with. Like people praying in public. I wish you wouldn’t, but I support your right to. I support Fred Phelps’s right to spread his hate. And I support your right to publish these terrible things, I would go to court to fight for your right to publish these things, because I believe in free speech, and in the Constitution. Which is more than I can say for the pro-torture anti-civil liberties government.
One last thing–Jessica Valenti’s books opened my (13-year-old) brother’s eyes about the way women have been and are treated. He will never hit a woman, or rape a woman, or even just think he’s better than a woman because she’s a woman. Surely you can’t think that one more civilized male, one more gentleman, in the world is a bad thing. Surely.
Cylar says: Sigh. Maybe you should look up feminism on wikipedia before you go around making claims about it. You show a gross misunderstanding of who feminists are and what they are trying to accomplish. Furthermore, not all feminists are the same. To lump them all into one category and say they are trying to turn “America’s teenagers into raging whores” is a ridiculous hyperbole.
I’m sure that Wikipedia will give us a totally unbiased definition of what feminism is, much more what it has become in the last 40-odd years.
I think the one showing a “gross misunderstanding” here is you. You don’t see the connection between organizations like NOW, encouraging young women to slut around, become lesbians, have abortions, etc etc, as a way of “empowering” themselves, in pursuit of what feminists are “trying to accomplish.” Whatever that is.
Are you suggesting that by using the word “feminist,” you consider yourself more like Susan B Anthony and less like Gloria Steinem? If so – congratulations! Women now have suffrage. Can we now agree to drop the male-bashing “hyperbole,” the nonsense that women that don’t agree with the feminist movement aren’t real women, and all the rest of the collectivist groupthink?
Cylar says: Your hate sickens me. I only hope you realize that it’s liberals who have fought for your right to free speech. And prayer. I’m a card-carrying ACLU member, and you better believe they defend things I disagree with. Like people praying in public. I wish you wouldn’t, but I support your right to. I support Fred Phelps’s right to spread his hate. And I support your right to publish these terrible things, I would go to court to fight for your right to publish these things, because I believe in free speech, and in the Constitution. Which is more than I can say for the pro-torture anti-civil liberties government.
You’re a disgusting, reprehensible human being. May God have mercy on your soul.
Fascism is leftist, Abby. Fred Phelps is a Democrat, too. Boy, your side really has some winners!
And I’m sure Valenti’s books, like the Sexual Revolution, have opened men’s eyes. “So, under the guise of sexual liberation, I can use women for sex and then leave them helpless and pregnant? Score!” The Sexual Revolution has been a monumental joke played by men on women, and women, of all things, are the ones constantly praising it!
Liberals have been just as fierce opponents of free speech as anyone else. Woodrow Wilson, our first fascist President, wanted to suppress contrary opinions during the war. Obama’s got a Truth Squad silencing speech in Missouri. Get off your high horse.
When the ACLU refused to support the Second Amendment, they lost the last shred of credibility they ever had. Civil liberties for some, fascism for others – is that their credo?
Abby says: Cylar: What does your god say about calling people disgusting and reprehensible? And what exactly makes me so? The paragraph you quoted says that I support free speech above all else. Including your right to call me names. But what did I say that inspired it?
Vernunft: Fascism is leftist? Yes, I always forget what a bleeding liberal Mussolini was. Fred Phelps is a Democrat? The man has devoted his life to saying hateful, hurtful things about gays (seriously, godhatesfags.com made me CRY) and you think he supports the party which acknowledges that gays are people?
Can I see some documentation on this “Truth Squad”, please? And not a link from a right-wing site, thanks.
I support the Second Amendment, as it is written. Which does not say that anybody in America should be allowed to go buy a gun, any time. An automatic weapon, at that. The Framers could not have imagined the kind of killing machines we would create by this point in time.
Abby says: “You don’t see the connection between organizations like NOW, encouraging young women to slut around, become lesbians, have abortions, etc etc,”
You realize that lesbians pretty much NEVER have abortions, right?
Eryn says: Cylar:
I guess you missed the part about the 3 waves of feminism. You site examples of the first two, Anthony and Steinem, but you never mention the 3rd wave which is what we have been in since the 1990’s. You are twenty years behind in your understanding of what feminism is, hence the “gross misunderstanding”.
3rd wave feminism is, among other things, interested in terrible, society-destroying, godless causes such as equal work for equal pay, ending violence against women, and providing safe, affordable health care. Sounds awful, doesn’t it?
jojo mcqueen says: just wanted to say, i love your gun! you are one tough hardcore way down in the south blues lady! i’m sure if someone tried to take your viginity, they would get shot!
you’re my hero!!! i love you!!!
Geek says: So… it’s wrong to tell girls that if they aren’t virgins, they’re not bad people?
It’s ok to call girls sluts if they have sex?
You are all so mean. 🙁
And, ironically, you are mean because you’re obsessed with virginity.
Parents can tell their kids to not have sex. But if the kids do, what then? Are they “bad people?”
Armyveteran says: It is almost FUNNY how poor your logical skills are. What seems to be even worse isthat fact that have read this book and make these assumptions. OHHHHH wait, you HAVEN”T read the book.
You are just jumping to assumptions about the book and making poor conclusions about feminism. Saying that purity culture harms women DOES NOT equal sleeping around is good.
Please, for the sake of this country learn something about logical fallicies.
And also, since you seem to love guns god and country or something how about all the promiscuity in the military? When will you purity chaser start honing in on that?
Do you not even realize your own hypocrisy?
Besides, you haven’t even read the book, you cannot ever judge a book by it’s cover.
Armyveteran says: A comment I saw somewhere else:
“purity balls” for 7-year-olds to pledge their virginity to their dads. No, that isn’t sexualizing young girls AT ALL…
Meredith says: This book has not even been published yet. Not one of you has read this book, including the original poster, and including me. It is completely insane that you would jump to such astounding conclusions. You are trashing a book you haven’t read solely based on your incorrect interpretation of the title and your incorrect views on feminists.
I, however, have read both the title (which reads “…America’s Obsession with Virginity is Hurtful…,” , not simply “Virginity is Hurtful…”), and Valenti’s brief explanations of what this book is about. She is not opposed to virginity. She is not against chastity. Her problem is with people who push virginity on girls using fear and shame tactics and who thereby push the idea that a girl’s value is in her vagina, or rather, her hymen. It’s not. It’s possible to be a good, valuable young woman without being a virgin. All girls should be raised to know this. She is a valuable person. Period.
And, speaking of STD rates, abstinence only programs that scare young people out of using condoms do not keep them from having sex. They scare the kids out of buying condoms, making them more likely to spread disease when they do have sex. And they *do* have sex.
Armyveteran says: Do feminists really benefit from “slut culture” or do men who use women benefit from it? Why are we as women having this arguement?
Proud Femenist says: “Larry Sheldon Says:
9:43 pm
Interesting that site uses, as decorations, the silhouettes that truck drivers put on their mudflaps.”
Larry, You’re really dumb if you don’t understand why she used those images. Go to the website and think about it. It’s not that hard. Honestly, it’s quite clever!
And this book was not written to encourage girls to whore around! It’s about how young women should not be defined by the state of their hymen.
David Watts says: It seems that this book is trying to point out that a woman’s worth should not be based on whether or not her hymen is intact. I don’t think that’s such a terrible, radical idea.
dave™© says: Sigh. Where to even begin.
Don’t fucking bother. You’ll just make yourself look stupider than– oops! Too late!
Rachel T says: I think this review would be more informative if instead of character based attacks on the author, you used rational argument to rebut the points the book makes.
Considering you do not state that you read the book and do not quote the book directly, this means that you are reviewing blog posts and articles the author may have also read, not this book itself.
Please read the book and refute the text and ideas presented therein as well as review the argument the author is making and how well or badly she supports this point.
Liz says: Who cares what Jessica Valenti has to say about sex? She is downright hideous, and therefore doesn’t have to worry about anyone wanting to have sex with her. For someone who describes everything as “creepy,” Jessica Valenti has a creepy smile and a lazy eye. So does sis Vanessa. She’s all-around yucky.
Sophie Brown says: Interesting you would mention the fact that one in four girls have stds. I would cite that as a fact supporting Jessica’s conclusion that the obsession with purity is bad for girls. Girls in the Bush era probably have not received good information about preventing pregnancy or stds, since they have been exposed to abstinence education in most parts of the country. So they are told there is no such thing as good sex, and so when they have sex, which many do in spite of that advice, they are less likely to have protection.
By the way, do you feel that every teen who has sex is promiscuous or a slut? It seems that way. That’s pretty weird.
David Watts says: Stay classy, Liz!
You may want to read her book (you know, once it’s published) along with her other book before you claim that she is encouraging all young women to be sluts. She actually discusses AT LENGTH the negative impact that Girls Gone Wild has on young women (and men for that matter). Imagine going to English class and critiquing a book written by a professor without reading it. You wouldn’t do that now would you.
I have learned that it usually gives you a leg to stand on when you know what your arguing. Try it out next time…
Abby says: I’m glad that Liz (43) doesn’t feel the need to use statistics, or documentation, or even basic logic, but prefers to instead just insult Jessica Valenti’s looks–which shouldn’t even matter in your world, where no one has sex anyway.
Personally, I would totally do her. Responsibly, of course, because I was lucky enough to be taught about safer sex. Not so for the four girls in my high school class who got knocked up at 17, 18, 19 and are not going to college or doing anything real with their lives. They didn’t have sex ed, and now they and their babies are going to pay for the failings of the government.
Ron Christie's Lazy Eye says: Jessica Valenti has a creepy smile and a lazy eye.
So do I but I’m quite the Ladies Man.
I’ll keep my good eye out for you.
😉
Sady says: “Your virginity is the one thing that is in your power to give of yourself…You don’t get do overs when you meet that one person that you could have given, in love, that one precious part of you to.”
Ha ha ha, YEAH, because I’ll never have a job, or write, or volunteer, or “give of myself” in any way other than having sex. Truly, my vag is the “one precious part” of me. For Christ’s sake. You complain about “feminists” reducing women to sexual objects, but you just said that the ONLY value women have resides between their legs.
Also? I’m just going to assume Cas here is a virgin. Unless you’d like to step in to correct me, Cas? Remember: virgin and slut are your only options, so if you had a sexual relationship with someone in the past and it did not work out, you are, by your own logic, a “whore.” Or, you know, a hypocrite. Choose wisely.
alyssa says: You are extremely arrogant. I suggest you read the book before you try and critique it.
We feminists aren’t plotting to make whores out of everyone, I swear.
This purity issue lies in the obsession with virginity this culture has. Your sexual choices are up to you, not anyone else. It is your own personal business. If one chooses to practice abstinence, fine. If one chooses to have sex, fine. Feminism is all about choices!
Also, you make it seem as though one can either be perfect and virginal or a dirty slut. There’s a middleground, believe it or not!!
And lastly, the whole purity ball thing, is infact CREEPY. Receiving a lock necklace while your dad holds the key until he gives it to your future husband; so men control your body at all times in your life, first your daddy then husband?!?! That is really weird and wrong!
lynz says: You’re just like those students in my class that I can tell haven’t studied the material before they wrote the essay. I’d totally give you an F.
I for one am glad for voices like Jessica’s. Women who aren’t afraid to stick up for other women who enjoy having control of their own bodies and sexuality. Oh yeah, and she’s totally hot.
Put down the gun and back away slowly…please.
J says: Larry, note that the icon on Feministing’s website is based on the mudflap design but is flipping the bird. I’m not sure what your point was in mentioning that but I just thought I’d clarify.
So, where’s the “choice” on your side? I can “choose” to be a virgin (because abstinence-only education is SOOO successful!), make a “mistake”, or be a disease-ridden slut. I suppose you’d have to pull your head an impossibly long distance out of your fascist, “handmaiden’s tale”, lets-make-america-into-taliban-afghanistan-to-“protect”-women’s asses to read a FEMINIST book like Female Chauvanist Pigs which CONDEMNS Girl’s Gone Wild, hook-up culture. There’s not even a hint of civility covering your Neo-Christian, hate-mongering ignorance.
Mary says: Hey everyone,
I just want to say you really misunderstand her position.
I am a woman who has chosen abstinence for herself. That said, the point is- it’s a choice and if I hadn’t no one would or should think less of me, or find me a less valuable addition to their life.
Truly, ourselves as humans and beautiful, thoughtful, moral, compassionate, kind, forgiving, mothering, loving beings should count more than how many people have seen our private parts. There is so much more to life and humanity than that. The idea that a woman’s intrinsic worth, when she is capable of offering so much more than her virginity, goes down if she has exchanged pleasure with someone, is damaging to everyone. To find someone is spoiled because of it sort of takes our choice away from us, and also is additional emotional damage for those who have been assaulted.
Another thing is- it feeds hate between women. None of us deserve it- and we should reserve judgment for something truly immoral, not choosing to engage in a consentual, loving act. A vagina is still a gift… our lives and bodies and brains and souls are gifts, and history of all kinds is a gift.
As I’ve said, I’ve chosen my path but I refuse to be so hateful to others who live their own paths peacefully and respectfully. The idea that a woman is iether a virgin or a whore IS damaging… it devalues us as human beings, who lead complicated, subtle lives. There is more to protect than our virginity… when you say our fathers protect our hearts, that is a beautiful idea, but our hearts our in our chest, our mind, our soul… not between our legs.
With love.
Mary says: Another thing-
Purity balls do suggest that a father has invested interest in his daughter’s use of her vagina. That is… weird, and yes, puts a strange highlight on sex. My dad wants me to make wise decisions for myself, but he would never want to know when I lose my virginity, nor would it change his opinion of me in the slightest. He just wants me to be happy.
What I think is odd is that a lot of feminists and you guys (anti-feminists?) agree that the over-sexualized culture is destructive for girls and women. I am very opinionated about that- it absolutely is. I think people are rushing into sex and expected to, I think porn has infiltrated everything, and it sucks. But in no way do I think that it has to be black/white/virgin/whore. Again- morality, and heart, are not breakable bubbles between our legs.
Thanks again.
Abby says: Mary, thanks for what you’ve said. I FULLY respect your choice of abstinence. I would punch anyone who suggested that you should run out and have sex if that’s not what you want. Okay, not punch, but definitely yell at. Abstinence isn’t a bad thing. But it’s never going to happen to everyone, and demonizing sex, and not educating about it, only serves to ruin girls’ (not boys’!) self-esteem and get them pregnant. Abstinence-only education doesn’t work. Study after study says it not only doesn’t work, it INCREASES teen pregnancy, STI rate, and abortion rate.
Choose to be abstinent, that’s great, and I really will kick in the balls any guy who pressures you into more. Just allow me the same choice too. (Not you, Mary, you clearly understand that idea, but others not so much.)
And no way is a father having an involvement in his daughter’s sex life not creepy, and no way is a father essentially owning his daughter, and handing her to her husband, not creepy and medieval. Or, sadly, far too recent. Perhaps these women would like to go back to a time when they really were owned by their fathers and then husbands? They couldn’t vote, of course, or own property, but that’s cool, right?
Michelle says: LOL @ all these people from Feministing xD
I totally agree with you 100% Cassy!
teresa says: If these Purity Balls are such a wonderful thing, I have to ask why aren’t teenaged boys being asked to pledge their purity to their Moms? Doesn’t it take two to tango?
By having only girls do this, you’re opening yourselves up to criticism that you’re training girls to see themselves as the property of the males around them. It’s hard to find any other explanation for why these kind of pledges and ceremonies are considered unseemly for boys.
Linda says: I agree with the author — virginity is a drag! I am so glad I didn’t just have sex with one man, like my mother did. Sex is so different with different people. Some, of course, are a lot better than others! What could be more interesting and gratifying to experiment with than sex? I’m married to a wonderful man who’s a wonderful lover now, but I couldn’t have appreciated him if I’d had my legs all tied up in a frigid pretzel all my life.
Chris says: Jessica Valenti is a heck of a lot better looking than the woman who runs this site. Furthermore, she dresses herself tastefully. What’s a prude like Cassy doing showing SO MUCH FLESH on this website?
Bumblebee says: Why do you all have to judge each other’s choices? Why can’t you just live your life your way and they live their life their way and you can all leave it at that? For some people sex is a beautiful expression of love and openness that they experience with more than one person. For others it’s the beginning of a lifelong commitment. For still others, they’re basically using each progressive sexual partner as an empty vessel for pleasure. I obviously prefer some of these choices over the others, but I’m proud to live in a country where we can make whatever choice we like.
And I’m sorry, but women should not have to be “gatekeepers” for men who can’t control themselves. Some of us actually respect men enough to think they have a brain as WELL as a penis, thank you very much…
Amanda says: Yes Michelle, a lot of people have come from feministing to check out this post. But a lot of them have contributed very well thought-out, rational ideas about what female sexuality means in our culture, comments which weren’t degrading in any way to the author of this post — comments that were simply trying to contribute another way of looking at this discussion. Perhaps some of them are worth a read?
Ahahahaha says: Andrew says:
If we want to see the end of the “rape culture”, women need to do thier part and stop sleeping with scumbags.
Oh, man. Rape is a very serious subject, so let me just say this about your comment, Andrew.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OMG WHAT A TOTAL IDIOT YOU ARE.
That is all.
Melissa says: Pleasure is not a worthless or “empty” experience. Pleasure is delightful. If you have psychological or physiological limitations that make you underrate pleasure, please seek therapy, and let those of us who can enjoy what’s enjoyable continue to do so in peace. After all, Jesus hung out with Mary Magdalene!
dab says: C’mon now, we dudes need all the pussy we can get!
Michelle says: Yes, Amanda, so of them are worth a read.
But you are all saying pretty much the same thing, yeah?
SouthernBaptist says: Michelle,
You seem to think the Feministing comments are all saying the same thing, but they are honest. Not like someone having an opinion on a book they never read.
Also, they do not all say the same thing, which you will know when you get done reading them. Just because they disagree with you doesn’t mean they all repeat the same thing over and over.
Abby says: Bumblebee, thank you so much for this: “And I’m sorry, but women should not have to be “gatekeepers” for men who can’t control themselves. Some of us actually respect men enough to think they have a brain as WELL as a penis, thank you very much…”
It drives me nuts that people think men are animals like that. And most just let the stereotype continue, I suppose because then they have an excuse for when they _do_ act like animals.
Amanda says: It looks like SouthernBaptist covered this one, but no — they don’t all say the same thing. There are many that simply pointed out that Cassy can’t have read the book, true, but there are a lot that could provoke a good discussion. And those are the ones that I was implying are worth reading.
Catherine says: I think you are missing the point. America is obbsessed with virginity and obbsessed with the state of the hymen, there is no inbetween with you she’s either a whore or a virgin. Can a woman who has a healthy sex life be considered a whore? I haven’t had sex, and I am not planning to for a while, why should someone run around telling me that my humanity is based on the state of my hymen. Purity rings and purity balls are all the rage now, I am not property and it is my body and I will not promise it to anyone, I love my father, we have a great relationship but he has no control over my body. For the record Jessica is not obbsessed with sex and she doesn’t hate herself. She is a strong freed women and she wrote on feminist that she is indifferent to sex and virginity. She wants to give women the choice. Leave her alone, especially since you haven’t even read the book, because it hasn’t come out. I think I’ll be the first to buy it. I think you may loath yourself to see your entire worth as a hymen, I am more than that you may not think you are but I know I am.
Brandi says: Has anyone noticed that this posts comments have been infiltrated with Feministing posters? This could be because they made a post on feministing a few days ago linking to this article.
http://www.feministing.com/archives/011519.html
They Just had a post a week or so ago on feministing whining about posters making comments that most feminist don’t agree with, pretty much asking for poster and post they don’t agree with to be banned and removed and complainting that posters who don’t agree with feminist are trolls. Then they come to a right wing blog and do the exact same thing, post annoying comment that people who read this blog more than likely will not agree with. Don’t you just love their hypocrisy?
As for the whole virgin thing. I think that some people can take it to far. Obviously it is not good for anyone to go around having sex with tons of people, but I think it is crazy, and not to mention hypocritical for people and society to ask for women to stay virgins until they are married, but apparently not having a problem if men go around having sex with any woman he can get his hands on.
So I think it should be a choice. If a person wants to have sex before they are married or of they want to wait until they are married, it all up to them, its their choice. But apparently feminist don’t understand choice, if they did then they would not be trashing girls and women who have chosen abstinence.
Abby says: “But apparently feminist don’t understand choice, if they did then they would not be trashing girls and women who have chosen abstinence.”
These girls aren’t choosing it. Their society, church, and fathers are choosing it for them. And being told that it’s what they *have* to do doesn’t generally work. Leading to pregnancy and STIs. I suppose abstinence if that’s what you choose. But I don’t support other people choosing it for you, or not keeping you informed anyway.
Abby says: Oh, and the trolls on Feministing, from the little I’ve seen (I don’t go there much), say stuff like this:
Women are lower than men and just here for our pleasure and you should all go back in the kitchen you whores you’re asking for it when you get raped now suck my dick and make me a steak.
That’s a troll. Actual discussion is a little different.
Abby, fascism WAS leftist. Mussolini, if you really want to go there, was admired by leftists in the United States. Do you know anything about history? The Progressive movement always had an authoritarian element to it, as it was conceived of as a way of imposing a government-mandated collectivism over the factional loyalties inherent in religion, family, and other private associations. Fascism, a nationalist socialism, is exactly what Woodrow Wilson et al. wanted for us – patriotism in the service of a totalitarian political ideal. That fascism was more “friendly” in the U.S. doesn’t make it any better, and it’s bizarre, to say the least, to have leftists today explicitly making the connection by calling themselves progressives.
Fred Phelps is a Democrat. That’s a bare fact about him. His party affiliation is Democratic. This isn’t up for debate, as if it’s a matter of interpretation – the man has run for office as a Democrat.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080930/NEWS15/80930007/1215/NEWS15 There’s your truth squad.
No one here said the Second Amendment is unrestricted. We just think it exists, which is more than liberals and the ACLU can say. Shameful.
Abby says: I enjoy how you can’t just present your arguments without resulting to personal snide remarks. “Do you know anything about history?” “[W]hich is more than liberals and the ACLU can say. Shameful.”
Progressive. One who is for progress. Yeah, damn that progress.
I’m fully aware that the Second Amendment exists, and fully aware that conservatives pervert its meaning to include automatic weapons, machine guns, grenade launchers.
Fred Phelps can call himself anything he wants, but I promise you, he does not speak for the Democratic Party. For that, I would look to the Party’s platform, or perhaps people actually elected as Democrats.
We’ve entirely left the original subject, which was the right of women to have control over our bodies and not be told by society how to use them–and that our worth is determined by the state of our hymens.
Churches don’t want the State to have power over them–as it shouldn’t–, so why do they insist on injecting themselves into the State?
SnowFall says: Sady (post #50), you totally misrepresented the person’s views.
He or she was not reducing a woman’s worth to her vagina only. (That would actually be what the feminist position comes down to.)
And technically, yes, if someone has sex outside of marriage, he or she is a whore / slut.
The “obsession” with virginity does not hurt young women. It protects them.
SnowFall says: Alyssa post 51 wrote: “There’s a middleground, believe it or not!!”
Actually, no, there’s not a middle ground on this issue. The Bible is pretty definite that people are to remain virgins until they marry (this applies to males as well as females).
But you wouldn’t know there’s a “choice” when American society as a whole treats people who abstain from sex as though they’re freaks, and the way sex is featured in every TV and magazine ad and every movie and TV show.
Fornication is, unfortunately, depicted as being normal, acceptable, and what everyone is doing.
SnowFall says: Post #52.
Interesting. Why is it that libs, Dems, and feminists always understand a woman being in control of her own body to mean “a woman can and should be able to whore around and get abortions.”
I never see libs, Dems, or feminsts interpret it or define it to mean a woman who adheres to traditional sexual morality.
Post 54.
Ethical Slut, I’m not sure what your problem is.
Nobody is forcing you to be chaste or pure.
You can whore around all you want to, but don’t expect people such as me to say we accept it, like it, or approve of it.
Linda, post 61 – deviant and disgusting. I feel sorry for you.
You also clearly have a selfish view of sex – it’s all about bringing you pleasure. Sex isn’t just about you getting an orgasm.
Melissa, 66. But Jesus did not have sex with Mary. (You do realize that the Da Vinci Code book has been debunked many times over, right?)
Abby wrote (#75),
“These girls aren’t choosing it. Their society, church, and fathers are choosing it for them.”
Uh no, they’re not *forcing* these girls to do anything; they are teaching the girls, informing them, leading them.
These girls could still have sex if they really wanted to.
It’s not as though these fathers or churches have placed chastity belts on the girls, or have put guns to their heads.
I don’t see what’s so “weird” about a father being concerned about any aspect of his daughter’s life.
If I were a father, I know I would not want my daughter screwing around, getting STDs, possibly getting pregnant, or getting her heart broken because she thought the bozo who slept with her did it from love when all he wanted was sex.
Michael says: i think we need to look at what we are saying. we are being sexist by calling girls slutty when they hook up with random guys, but guys we congratulate when they hook up with random girls. we need to realize how we are presuring the youth of america into feeling sex is dirty. if a girl loses her virginity at 17 with a guy she likes alot, that likes her, and they have been going out for along time, and it is consenual why should she feel dirty afterwords. this is because of how we pressure girls into being pure.
Abby wrote (#75),
“These girls aren’t choosing it. Their society, church, and fathers are choosing it for them.”
the girls are not really choosing and becuase of all this they will feel guilty afterwords. we need to have a moral check.
We should think about waht they want, and not what we want for them. we just need girls to know the consquence, but not feel pressure not to make the leep
Shaniquequa says: Well if you read more of her blogs on feministing, Jessica Valenti is not saying if you’re a virgin that’s wrong and she has made that clear. Being a virgin is not a bad thing at all but neither is bein sexually active and that’s the point she’s trying to make. Purity balls are wierd and even my dad feels that way. I think a girl being a virgin should be 100% her choice and her father saying he’s going to protect her virginity until her husband comes along and takes it IS sexist. Where is your choice in that decision. What if your dad doesn’t like your husband in the future? You can’t marry and give your virginity to him because he says no. Where is your choice in that I repeat!?
I don’t see how you can judge the book before you read it but on the cover, it says, “America’s OBSESSION with virginity.” Pretty much saying how America is obsesssed with keeping girls my age pure because like what she put in her book, Full Frontal Feminism, that they say in abstinence classes, “our virginity is like a lollipop and if we let a guy suck on our lollipop, sure it’ll feel good but once he’s done we have nothing left but a saliva infested lollipop.”
I don’t find that healthy for girls my age to hear. Another thing about the article in Time Magazine about Purity Balls is that in the article, they said a girl was raped and she felt like she couldn’t wear her purity ring anymore because she felt no longer “pure.” To me the fact she felt that can show there is something damaging with America shoving virginity and being pure down our throats.
P.S. Why must it be putting out? Why can’t we just be having sex. You make it sound like women just give it up because the man says so and not because we actually want to fuck.
Brittany says: It’s a stretch for me to even say that I think Purity Balls are a good thing. Personally, I don’t believe they are. But here’s my question.
Allowing your father to present you with a lock, allowing him to guide you throughout your dating life, and allowing him to protect your virginity is a fairly monumental decision, no? A 12 year old girl is neither consciously able to decide whether she supports abstinence or not. Children should have parents guidance, but if children, CHILDREN, aren’t able to make up THEIR OWN MINDS about what their beliefs, morals, and ethics are, then they should not be lead (and I do say lead, because they are impressionable) to one extreme or another.
Perhaps too idealistically, we could allow our children to perhaps refrain from having sex until the age of 16, when they are perhaps able to understand the implications of their actions.
There is no way that a 12 year old can understand how having sex or not having sex will affect her life, so we should neither support their participation in sexual activities, but we should also not drag them to purity balls when they can’t even understand what their virginity means to them.
Here is the problem – fathers, parents, forcing their children to attend purity balls. Perhaps not even forcing them, children are, for the most part, inclined to believe that their guardians will always have their best interests at heart. If you say a child can’t understand the implications of adult sex before marriage, then you say that they cannot comprehend the gravity, or lack thereof, sexual actions.
And they cannot be forced, should not be forced, to make a decision on what they don’t understand.
My attempt at being moderate, so let me throw out a comment to make this personal – I love sex, I’m not ashamed of my sexuality, I celebrate it with people I love and trust. Really – some of you all just act like fucking nutbags.
Katie says: Brittany, I agree with you. When I was 11, I told my parents that I wanted to have a Bat Mitzvah (A tradition in Judaism that marks the passage into adulthood.) By the time I was 13, and about to have said Bat Mitzvah, I was completely fed up and hated that I had ever said yes. At 11, I didn’t understand the entire process that would take place, and how much work I would have to put in, in order to partake in the ceremony. That was only two years before I had my Bat Mitzvah.
If I couldn’t understand the (much simpler process) of having a Bat Mitzvah only two years before I had it, then how is any young girl supposed to understand the pros and cons of having sex?
“There’s a reason that 1 in 4 teenage girls has an STD.”
I agree, abstinence is the only sure fire way to keep women from getting an STD/STI, or from getting pregnant. However, the purity balls seem to be about keeping the women pure, rather than keeping them healthy. “‘giving up the covering of my heart, protecting me, since it means my husband is now the protector.'” So, her father holds her heart, protecting her from sex, but once her heart is passed on to her husband, the sex becomes fine and dandy? This is all about making sure women are pure for their husbands, and there’s nothing wrong with that if the woman truly wants that up until the day she’s married. But there’s something very strange about having little girls making these decisions before they understand their implications.
Also, maybe you should actually wait until the book comes out before you pass judgment on it. And if you really want to criticize, do some research first.
“So for the record: I think virginity is fine, just as I think having sex is fine. I don’t really care what women do sexually, and neither should you. In fact, that’s the point. I believe that a young woman’s sexual choices – no matter what they be – shouldn’t have a bearing on how they’re seen as moral actors.” -Jessica Valenti, on feministing.com
http://www.feministing.com/archives/011519.html (It’s towards the bottom.)
kornkobbler says: not really sure there’s an overwhelming obsession with virginity anywhere in the states at the moment. hooking up is the new thing little boys and girls are all talking about and you’re considered weird if you haven’t given or received a handjob by junior high. the show is called ‘sex and the city’ not ‘chastity and the virgin’. i wonder where the writer of the book lives. maybe utah?
Elizabeth says: I like what you said about willpower and how doing whatever you want whenever you want shows a very weak person. I totally agree. I enjoy the whole article. Write your book! Seriously, thanks for sharing this all…
Lisa says: Hmmm perhaps the problem lies in abstinence only sexual education. *Expecting* the teenaged women will be the gatekeepers of morality and self control at all times has led to more and more teen pregnancies.
Yes of course parents should talk to their children. About the physical aspect. About the emotional aspect. About STD’s. About pregnancy. About rape. About birth control. Because when it comes down to it, teenagers and teenagers and some of them *are* going to engage in sex, and the least parents and our school systems can do is educate teens.
I’m a mother and fully intend to have many many conversations with my child and future children about sex. I specifically speak frankly about body parts and pregnancies and such to my child now (who is grade school aged) specifically so I can have conversations with him later on with the minimum of embarrassment. And to stress that having sex while a young teenager isn’t a great choice. But I’m also going to make sure that they know what a condom and birth control are!
It is insane that women are more highly valued as virgins, while the status matters not for men.
Al says: What gets me is that more and more young women are beginning to believe that sex is their only ticket to a good relationship. Big media (Cosmo, Vogue, billboards, TV, movies, etc…) has them all believing that they’re fat and ugly, so what else do they have to offer a good man, right? Funny thing is that it’s completely counter intuitive. You won’t find one man who’ll turn a woman down for sex, but no man wants a real relationship with a woman who’s willing to drop trou at the first opportunity she gets.
Angela says: Ok, so I just read your post and didn’t read the other posts (I know, bad me), but I just wanted to say, RIGHT ON! Why can modern feminists not see that the “hook-up” culture is a culture that is idealized and promoted by men who desire to have fewer expectations placed upon them by women? Why is it so hard to get through to some that instead of creating a culture of women who have “sex like men”, we really need to reverse the paradigm and raise the expectations of men in our culture- instead of lowering our expectations of women. I believe in equality and I believe in self-respect and discipline for both men and women.
I also saw Jessica on the Today Show a few weeks ago. She was on with another author who was promoting abstinence. Jessica could not stress enough that virginity ruins women. Which, and this may be old fashioned, I thought was a little harsh to be saying, as it is THE ONLY method that is 100% effective to prevent pregnancies and STDs. Should we really condemn the only thing that is proven to work, even if it is a slightly harder path? I’m not sure how she’s an expert on this subject, but she is missing a HUGE lapse in judgement.
commentName says: This article or whatever it is is so political that it has nothing to do with sex. Only jobless or someone sho has nothing to do can read this crap.
jason dashney says: 1 in 4 teen girls “has” an STD, eh? That’s present tense there, lady. 1 in 4? What Russian brothel was this poll taken at? I have never understood why sex is supposed to be sacred in the least. There’s a health issue attached for sure, but as for the sacred part, leave that up to the person having, or not having sex. Don’t push your ideas on anybody. If a 12 year old has sex and later on regrets it, big deal! It’s part of their growing up and experiences and sheltering them from mistakes is the worst thing you can do. The feminist is just trying to say that a womans privates don’t get passed from daddy to hubby. She owns them, period (pardon the pun). EIther way, people that say they are right wing, or left wing scare me. Nothing says narrow minded quite like declaring in writing how inflexible you are. I also hope that the Smoking Hot Commentary has nothing to do with the pic of the chubby girl with the gun. The right wing dudes love Ann Coulter because they want to have sex with her more than they want to hear her views. Chastity? Abstinence? Then don’t sexualize yourself on your own page, girl. Stop pushing your views on people. Talk about what works or doesn’t work for YOU, and suggest others can do the same. That’s the best one can do for anyone over the age of puberty, or you become a tyrant.
Hah here i was trying to comment after i read what you wrote, and i kept reading everyone else’s i agree completely with pretty much everything i read (since after a while i said, i gotta post something and quit reading what everyone else said) but anyway Cassy, you rule. keep telling the truth. i hope other women out there check out your site
I’m a feminist (in the old sense of the word), and I agree completely with what you’re saying. Keep up the good work. 🙂
DD says: Actually, if the premise of your argument is that sex is physically dangerous because of STD’s then could some one please explain to me why none of the legal brothels in Nevada have EVER had even one case of any STD. The girls there get blood tests every month and paps weekly. (I’ll give you a hint, its called “education”)
More teenagers need to learn how to properly use condoms as well as how to recognize physical symptoms of std’s.
Face it, these days, virgins in their 20’s are an extreme rarity. It is in our nature to want to have sex.
Matthew says: What is the one way to have a child do something….prohibit them from doing it. Teaching children about sex and that maybe a little fun with multiple people is actually ok.
When you have purity rings, purity balls, chastity pacts all they do is focus those children on SEX. All they are talking about is SEX, all they are thinking about is SEX and all is making them want to do is have sex. Maybe the book is a little off, but the other side is just as screw up a plan, maybe more
Happy says: You need to get laid.
🙂
Reeelaxxxxx.
Foxfire says: Dear Andrew from Penn State,
Feminists do like to “complain about rape”, for good reason. Women are not raped because they “sleep with scumbags”, they are raped because someone decides to rape them. Perhaps the reason they don’t put value in that “traditional christian sexual morality” bullshit is because its degrading and oppressive towards women. We will not be ashamed of our bodies. Thank you Jessica Valenti for all the work you’ve done and all the work you continue to do towards Womyn’s Liberation.
Sincerely, Foxfire
Lydia says: I’m prety sure the author was talking about the extreme purity balls (which I also disagree with). These girls look at their father to control their lives until they’re married, in which case their father hands the reins to their new husband. It seems like an unhealthy relationship to me. I was a daddy’s girl growing up, so I understand letting your father in your life. My dad used to paint my toe nails with me. These girls pledge their sexual lives to their father (in the sense that their father controls their virginity and gets to hand it off to their husband. If the girls violate their virginity, they dishonor their father). That seems a step to far.
Hunter says: “You’re a disgusting, reprehensible human being. May God have mercy on your soul.”
Quick to judge, hmmm? Do not condemn the judgment of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.
-Dandemis
Also, “let he who is without sin, cast the first stone”
I do not offer any personal advice on this post. I find myself in the middle on a lot of the issues. Everyone should not be so fast to judge. It’s as if everyone has this perfect idea of what morals are and if another person differs then they are bound for hell and not a human being. God will judge all of us. We should learn to live our lives to the fullest and not be concerned with what others do.(Caveat, this does not apply when the rights of others are infringed on by physical threat.)
Alyss says: I’m all for sexual revolution. But that also indicates that the participant is educated. I don’t mind if a woman wants to have as much sex as a man. I mean why not? Why are we as women expected to fear more because of disease. I’m for teaching honesty. For myself and many other women as children I was lied to from the moment I left the womb. My father, grandfather, brothers, cousins, male friends, ex-lovers ect, would tell me that one day a man will love me so much that all this sexual need such as masturbation and lusting after porn will be no more. Why? Because he will love me SOOO much that all of this will not matter. This lie as you can plainly see is setting me up to fail. And has for many women. After believing and wanting this lie for a lifetime it is amazing that men get so astonished when women have fits over things. Men like my father (who was a wonderful man, I love him dearly) follow this trend. Lock the girl up and teach her to be chaste while teaching the boy to spread his seed. It’s an endless circle of failure. Teach honesty not a fairy tale if you want your young women not to be emotionally hurt when everything they’ve been taught their entire life comes crashing down in an instant and is expected to accept this sudden changed because her lover is “a man” and she’s just being an over sensitive bitch.
AgaDoo says: So, Cassy, you feel that ‘hooking up’ is unhealthy and thos that do sleep around are sluts, huh? You are posing on your blog with a GUN. A GUN. That, of course, is very emotionally healthy, the need to carry a dangerous weapon.
I also see no references to men hooking up. Double standards??
If a girl wants to have sex, with multiple people, then it is up to her of she is emotionally ready. It is very patronising to assume that no -one is ready at a young age.
You feverently critiscise femenists – God forbid we should have people who dedicate their lives to equality!
Who are you to judge?
Lizl says: I keep hearing the word slut being thrown around but it seems no one gets the point of all this. Feminists aren’t evil whores trying to seduce your sweet innocent little girls. No one’s advocating reckless immoral behavior, but a healthy expression of human sexuality which comes in all different shapes and sizes. I suggest that next time we start complaining about how our girls aren’t virgins anymore we look instead at the fact that men and women aren’t held to the same standard. If a 17 year old boy hasn’t had sex yet there’s something wrong with him, obviously; but a girl who’s had 2 or 3 partners, well she’s a slut!Burn her! Throw her out of town! Stone her to death because obviously she has nothing to contribute to society now that a thin membrane of tissue is no more. Come on people let’s grow up a little okay?
John says: Alyss,
There’s a good chance that she’s and you are an oversensitive bitch. How old are you? I mean, all of girl friends fathers never acted like this. It’s not like all women are fanstastic in bed. Some men masturbate and watch porn because sex in bed with the other half maybe lack luster.
codder says: america’s got manny obssesions.that’s from their’s own stupidity.
Andrew says: Wow, I miss natural selection, I really do. All you people would’ve been eaten by bears by now. 108 comments worth of garbage.
Andrew says: Oh, and the thing about women “deserving” rape, Andrew from Penn State? You’re probably one of the most disgusting human beings I’ve ever encountered. Make sure you let your next girlfriend read that post before she agrees to go out with you. I’m sure she’ll have a change of heart, but then again, maybe she’ll *deserve* to be raped then. I’m sure a fine, upstanding young man interested in marriage like you would be happy to teach her a lesson, because she was asking for it.
Jackass.
Andrew says: I take that back, the first …oh, say…35 comments are garbage. The rest are commendable.
Taryn says: First of all I would like to say that I’m a virgin at 22, I’ve chosen to be a virgin, would like to be so until I’m married, and my decision is both religion-based (I’m a Christian) and morality-based. I do believe my husband will by my protector and my provider, and in turn I will be his conscience and his comfort. My parents and family don’t push me to this, I have CHOSEN this because it’s how I want to be, but I absolutely believe a woman that wants to be a career woman should have that option available to her.
From there, I just want to point out a few things. Firstly, although I’ve chosen this, I don’t think it’s right to call a girl a whore that has chosen something else for herself (unless she IS a whore). There’s a difference between being in love with your long-term boyfriend and deciding to sleep with him and sometime down the road breaking up and women that sleep with a different man every night. I don’t think it’s right to condemn any girl that has sex as evil.
Secondly, why exactly aren’t fathers also giving locks to their sons? Why is a man’s virginity not JUST as precious a gift to give to someone? I honestly would like to know this, so please, tell me your thoughts on the subject. Doesn’t it seem right that men should be expected to be virgins until they’re married as well?
Which leads to my third point– many of you are comparing these women that sleep around– or even just sleep with boyfriends– to “horn-dog men” and claiming that women have to be the moral gatekeepers because men can’t– I saw one poster likened men like this to animals in the jungle that will kill to mate. But didn’t God make us more intelligent that animals, the King of the animals? And give us the free-will to overcome animal notions? Men aren’t allowed to kill other humans for territory (well, at least not on a personal level, we do fight wars but that’s besides the point). So then why are men allowed to– and even worse, expected to– sleep around and spread their seed and STD’s and they’re lauded as ‘manly men’? Worse yet, I have NEVER heard a Christian arguing that a man was a whore and going to hell after being caught having sex, but god-forbid a woman even allow herself touched. We have no terms for a man who sleeps around that are negative. Women are “whores”, “sluts”, “skanks”, so on. A man would be a “ladies-man”, “man-whore/slut” (while this sounds negative it is NOT used in a negative light), or even just considered a normal guy.
That, I think, is the reason that so many feminists are up in arms. I think that many are backwards though. Rather than fighting for women to be able to sleep around and be “sluts” and the like, what we as women should be demanding is that in this instance men be treated like women. A man has no physical indicator of virginity, but shouldn’t their “cherry” be just as sacred to them? I think that every daughter and every SON of a Christian family should be encouraged and led to virginity, and if that means purity balls for BOTH sexes then so be it. My overall question in this post, the one I want someone (a father would be great) to please answer me, would be this– Why are fathers far more invested and interested in their daughter’s virginity than in their son’s? Is it because a woman can get pregnant? Or is there something else– something that perhaps put women under men– that is the cause for this? I am no less in the Lord’s eyes than my brother is; the state of his soul is just as important as the state and purity of mine. If I’m equal in the Lord’s love then should I not be equal in society?
As one last note, someone mentioned that if women valued their virginity there would be less rape. I was appalled, and then I LAUGHED at you, as that is one of the ONLY truly ignorant comments on this site. RAPE generally has nothing to do with sexual gratification, it’s about having power over someone and exerting it. Why else would Elizabeth Smart (a hero of mine), a girl that was very religious and devout, have been kidnapped and REPEATEDLY raped over and over? Honestly, women being virgins is almost MORE reason to be raped because the rapist is taking something from her that she can NEVER get back; that is what it’s about. Rape is like a really really awful form of theft (to put it very lightly). I must say, how dare you insinuate that rape is in any way the rapee’s fault? Even if you’re talking about date-rape, whether or not the girl is promiscuous doesn’t really have anything to do with whether she will be raped or not. Whoever said that, and whoever believes that, if an IDIOT and needs to be sterilized so there will be NO MORE idiots like them.
Thomas says: This post is absolutely ridiculous. Allow me to explain how:
There is a difference between not being abstinent and “slutting around” as it’s being referred to here. In fact, they are two opposite ends of the sexual spectrum. It’s okay to have sex; and hooking up isn’t necessarily bad either. All things in moderation, as some of the most famous thinkers of the past 2,000 years have said. The point is, you can’t just say because someone supports losing your virginity and growing out of the ridiculously patriarchal society that we like to pretend we live in (yes PRETEND; it’s 2010, guys. let’s move on past this 1950’s culture), that they support “slutting around” and then use a horribly skewed statistic about 1 in 4 teenage girls having an STD (anyone can lie with statistics; and correlation doesn’t mean causation. if you ever took a statistics class, you’d know that).
Second, I think it absurd that a father should be her “protector” and then pass her off to her husband as her “new protector”. Women should be strong enough and independent enough to take care of themselves. The women I know surely are. Why would you perpetuate this myth that men need to take care of women? Do you want to be / Are you a stay at home mom? Why? Do you not want to empower yourself with education, earn your own money to spend on the things that YOU want, rather than having to borrow hubby or daddy’s money because they’re the bread-winners? Or maybe you’re just too comfortable not having to do anything and letting the men of the world rule over you and make decisions for you, following along, hopeless to do anything about your situation.
Women deserve equal respect and rights, and you’re trying to stop that from happening (which, since you are a woman, i find that absurd). I hope one day you see the fundamental issues with your worldview and take the time to reevaluate it and come to a better, more thought-through conclusion rather than just spitting out what your daddy told you when you were growing up.
P.S.
To everyone who thinks America is sex obsessed, travel outside of the country. Europe is far more sexual than we are; between the ads and the sex shops it’s hard to avoid it. Here in the states, though, we spend our time and resources promoting violence, which you will NEVER see on European cable or advertisements. They find out obsession with violence appalling, much like the conservative people I know who I travelled with find Europe’s obsession with sex. Frankly, I think sex is a far less hurtful thing to see than violence; one promotes a natural human action, the other promotes pain, hurt, fights, etc. Travel and become educated.
ryan willemsen says: all right so this just popped up on a comic site so id thought i’d check it out and all i can say is this lady is fucking screwy. Im a 20 year old guy and im sorry but if i started dating some girl and she told me the she fucked around with 30+ guys id be worried about my health.
So just to be clear i am a pagan and in our religion sex is something to be enjoyed however virgins are celabrated because they are still pure. so the fact that some feminist bitch is flapping her fat lips again dont mean shit. Shes probally in the same group that wants to change our national anthem(CANADA) and all i can finish with is ‘i hope you cock on a fucking hotdog u fat feminist bitch cause that the only meat you ever going to get”.!
Nate says: While reading over the blog and a few of the comments posted, I couldn’t help think of the “utopian” society in Brave New World. Everyone had sex with who ever they please, little children were encourage to explore everything sexual, and there was no such thing as a family. Words like “Mother” and “Father” were very obscene. I fear that because of people like Jessica we will soon have a society similar to Brave New World. I think she should have read that book before publishing her stupid book. As for women who want their rights and equality, try getting drafted to fight for our freedom in America, then talk to me about your rights. Research the so called “equal” treatment of women in military academies compared to the men. HAHAHA. Oh yeah, and as far as independence, if you women want independence so bad, then why do you feel the need to sleep around with so many men? or sell your body? or be chained down by the use of birth control? COME ON WOMEN, THROW YOUR PILLS AWAY! LETS GET TOTALLY INDEPENDENT!!! …ha
PS:
A little off topic, but drug use these days is also becoming terrifyingly similar to what is discussed in Brave New World. All we need now is to grow babies out of test tubes, precondition them to be happy in whatever rank of human class they are thrown into, and finally teach them death is a good thing….
oh wait, has it started already?
Jake says: First off, all of you bashing left wing and liberals need to shut up. We don’t want her on our side either.
Stop saying you know what liberals are for or against, because you don’t know.
Now, this is the first time in a LONG time I completely and 100% agree with the right wing.
Promoting a woman to get rid of her virginity just because she can is crazy, and any woman who does what this author says is not going to have a happy marital life at all. Is this what the feminist movement is, now? I thought I was sympathetic with the feminist movement, because I think men and women should be equally treated. I believe woman are naturally better than men, simply because they are more evolved. Physically their brain is more capable. But for a movement to encourage young teenagers to lower their values is the OPPOSITE of progress.
Now, I am going to try and not stereotype feminists, because people like the author of this book could just be a few radicals. But it’s going to be damn hard. A few drops of vinegar can make a pure glass of water taste completely bitter. I am still sympathetic to feminists, but they need to make sure their goals are FOR THE BETTERMENT OF SOCIETY and not the betterment of themselves
James says: Fantastic article. SO wonderful to see a beautiful young woman defending the value of virtue. I’m a young guy sick of “new feminism” as well.
Cynthia says: I think you misunderstood the passage about the purity balls. Ms. Valenti has a problem with the balls because they treat girls like property; first they are “owned” by the father, then they are “given” to the husband.
The obsession with keeping girls pure is another way they are treated like property. Ensuring that your daughter is a virgin is a way of making sure she’s seen as valuable to a future husband. Valenti doesn’t have a problem with virginity, just with the idea of virginity as a sort of selling point for husbands, like girls don’t have the capacity to make their own sexual decisions (once they are mature enough to do so, of course, and once they are provided with information about contraceptives and birth control…the sort of information provided by comprehensive sex ed programs). Also, the male equivalent of a purity ball is an “integrity ball.” Boys promise not to have sex…but it’s not about keeping THEM pure, it’s about making sure they don’t “defile” someone else’s “future wife”. Again, girls are seen as just future property.
NAR says: The author of this obviously doesn’t know much about feminism. Its called the virgin-whore dichotomy. For christ’s sake I wish people would read a little bit before making blatantly retarded assumptions. The whole rant (not worth of being called a review) is basically ignorant. Instead of actually reading the book lets just make it look like the author tells girls to screw everything with legs. I will make it a point to never visit this site again after reading this disheartening article.
Humanist says: Personally, i think this whole debate is pretty stupid. Of course the whole Virgin-Whore dichotomy is wrong, because there is plenty of room in between. Engaging in sexual relationships does not make you a whore, it makes you an adult making decisions about how you want to live your life. So does being a virgin. However, feminists are dealing with the entire American public as their audiences. This audience is subject to mob mentality just like any other large group and if you push a mob one step, they will take ten. A mob tends towards the extremes, not the middle grounds. Therefore any opinion about this in either direction pragmatically takes out all shades of grey and enforces the dichotomy, which is what is being said to hurt american woman and teenagers.
Of course i think it is the individual woman’s choice what kind of sex life she engages in…. After she is over the age of consent and/or majority (depending on the state). Until that it is the parent’s decision to raise and teach them any way they see fit. And of course i have my own opinions as to what is the right way to do this, but I’m not even going to mention them because they’re not relevant. The fact of the matter is that as much as it is a woman’s choice whether or not to have sex, it is just as much the parent’s choice how they raise their children. Nobody has any right to interfere with any parent, or tell them what they SHOULD be doing, unless the child is actually in danger. And i promise you being kept a virgin in no way places a teenage girl in immediate danger.
As for young girls who do not have the maturity to make these kinds of decisions, this is exactly why we have the age of consent. It is technically illegal for anyone below this age to have sex, so anyone who is arguing that teenagers should or shouldn’t be forced to be virgins or act like sluts are really wasting your time. The law is in place, and no politician is going to remove it. That’s political suicide.
Finally, I do agree that it is insulting to try to pass this off as feminism. This is NOT what the birthmothers of feminism were fighting for. Feminism was about standing up to an unjust system and fighting for equality for women, who rightly deserve it. I am in full, 200% support of this. But feminism is over. Not dead, as some people seem to think, but over. The genders are equal under law now. The system has been fixed in that regard. Mission Accomplished. Anything that feminists fight for after that point is trying to give women a leg-up. It saddens me that feminism turned into that. And i know there are many people who say that socially the genders are not equal and there are all sorts of inequalities. like the statistic floating around that men make more money at the same job. But the thing is, this type of discrimination is already illegal, and the american government can’t fix social attitudes because they can’t pass laws controlling people’s opinions. There’s nothing more the government can do for women. Any further lobbying is not only an insult to what feminism really meant, but actually quite pointless.
Humanist says: Oh and did it occur to anyone that maybe some parents love their children more than their religion? That maybe a father wanting to keep his daughter a virgin has nothing to do with her worth as a person depending on whether or not she is “pure” because she is just properly, but is actually motivated by the desire to keep her healthy and un-knocked-up, and protect her from men who are looking to take advantage of her and possibly hurt her? That when Kylie’s father said he would give the key to her husband as a symbol that it is his turn to protect her, he meant protecting HER, not her “purity”?
Mak says: She’s arguing her point VERY badly, but she does have a point. Abstinence education is harming young girls. It makes them feel like sluts when they have sex with someone they’re in a committed relationship with. It keeps them from getting a proper education on contraception and safe sex options. Promoting abstinence is not good for young girls. Making them feel like they’re worthless and not a suitable wife if they aren’t a virgin is definitely doing more harm than good. But promoting the hook-up culture like Jessica argues is doing just as much harm as promoting abstinence.
By the way, all you people attacking feminism: Just because one woman who calls herself a feminist is arguing this, doesn’t mean that the entire feminist movement is behind her. Feminism has done so much for our society, and bashing it just because you disagree with ONE woman is a little messed up.
mathew says: Well If i were an ugly, gun-owning fat girl.. i would definetly be against that book – too! congrats.. I am so glad that you conservatives are far away from my country. typical religious republicans without any horizont.
have fun lying to yourself. day-in, day-out.
peace.
Mai says: I want to point out something, people, and think carefully about it. READ THE FEEDBACK, aka COMMENTS. There’s been plenty of people trying to CORRECT the blogger, but most of it has gone in vain since people are too lazy and hurry up their opinions before actually processing all the information available of the subject.
And just forget insulting. It just shows how ignorant you can be and gives no credibility to you.
The work of feminists is only in half way. As you can see, there are still males and even females themselves “guiding” to the right sexual behavior. A woman IS NOT a whore until she sells her body for money. Please don’t forget it. As there’s always those that will start calling a lady a whore just because they didn’t get their way with her. And will always be. And lets get it straight. Feminism is about woman’s right to control HER OWN BODY and HER OWN CHOICES.
Not forget that they have the right to be TREATED as well as males are treated. As there will always be males who treat women as a lower life form who’s intelligence is not at the same level with theirs and value themselves above the female. And vice versa.
A loving family is always reguired to help the child, be it a boy or a girl, to grow in a safe environment, but pushing their values to their children until they see no chance but to do exactly the opposite will help no one. We then again come down to their OWN CHOICES, to their right to control their OWN BODIES. Educating them to make the right choices for themselves, how is that wrong?
For example, I have fully chosen abstinence, but not because my parents chose it for me or because my religion requires it. Actually, my parents did not try to affect my sexuality in anyway. It’s JUST and ONLY because I view sexuality as a gift and do with it as I want to. Why can’t the others have the chance to make the choice for their own?
What makes it YOUR business to judge what’s the best for another person?
Mai says: Oh, right. I forgot. YOU DON’T READ THE COMMENTS. Scroll up again and read what other people has said or you’ll miss the point again.
Mind you, read the feedback typed by people that actually know what they’re talking about. Thank you.
Mai says: For those that are still to lazy to read what has been previously said..
Meredith Says:
“This book has not even been published yet. Not one of you has read this book, including the original poster, and including me. It is completely insane that you would jump to such astounding conclusions. You are trashing a book you haven’t read solely based on your incorrect interpretation of the title and your incorrect views on feminists.
I, however, have read both the title (which reads “…America’s Obsession with Virginity is Hurtful…,” , not simply “Virginity is Hurtful…”), and Valenti’s brief explanations of what this book is about. She is not opposed to virginity. She is not against chastity. Her problem is with people who push virginity on girls using fear and shame tactics and who thereby push the idea that a girl’s value is in her vagina, or rather, her hymen. It’s not. It’s possible to be a good, valuable young woman without being a virgin. All girls should be raised to know this. She is a valuable person. Period.
And, speaking of STD rates, abstinence only programs that scare young people out of using condoms do not keep them from having sex. They scare the kids out of buying condoms, making them more likely to spread disease when they do have sex. And they *do* have sex.”
It’s comment 37#. You may verify it yourself. And yes, I have read every single comment written before me.
Barbel Arschloch says: After having read your article, I cannot believe that you are a rational human being, Cassy. To say that sex, the most basic of actions , is not a natural act, is absolutely absurd! What isn’t natural about it? Humans do not need to build machines or take injections to allow the body to engage in the act of sex. The notion that a woman cannot be a good human being if her hymen is not intact is preposterous, because — the last time I checked — the vagina is a reproductive organ, not the brain, and therefore does not dictate the actions of the person.
I really don’t know how to simplify it anymore for you anti-feminist and anti-human Scheisskopfe.
Thundal says: Condoms aren’t safe sex, and practicing proper safe sex means that, yes, you’ll be STD free. I’ve slept with dozens of people, male and female, and I’m not even 21 yet. I make sure they’re all tested and assured clean (I don’t do one night stands, clearly, but I do have lots of fuck buddies on hand), and I’ve had a vasectomy and my gf (now of 5 years, yay!) has had her tubes tied, because I have disabilities and male-pattern baldness (if we want kids, we’ll adopt).
I’m clean, and safe, and being intellectual about things means that people will be safe. Abstinence produces extremely harmful effects on people, similar to it being difficult for a rich-boy, fresh outta college, to enter the workforce. It’s a huge, possibly dramatic change, and he’s had little to prepare him for it.
(yes, I know this has been said before here, just giving it my anecdote and the like. Both sides were argued poorly: the truth is that putting value on virginity is harmful (either haste to lose it or extreme reluctance to lose it are both baseless and useless), regardless of intent. Sexuality is human, and when used properly, is 100% safe. It’s that simple. If there wasn’t shame, we’d have no STDs, either.
What a world, where you could be proud of anything you do by choice!
Sgizy says: Who are we to know the difference in what is right and wrong, thats between the person and God. So i didnt know all you antifemminsts were a higher power than anyone else?
Julia says: I think that the people in some of these comments are trying to determine which is better: apples or koalas? Being a slut isn’t the same thing as not being a virgin, feminism isn’t the same as advising young girls to become prostitutes, and nobody knows what the author’s views really are yet. I’m 15, I’m a virgin, and I’m content with continuing to be one until I know I’m ready to spend the rest of my life with the person, and that he’s ready to spend the rest of his life with me. I don’t need a legal document to tell me when we’re ready; I have a brain for that. And as for feminism, I agree with equal rights between the sexes, but nobody can deny that men and women are different. People who try to mush everyone together into some homologous blob in the name of equality takes away from the beauty of being part of a diverse world.
Marisa says: Hahaha… this might be the extreme, yes…but what feminism really wants to achieve is gender equality. The meaning behind this extremism would be that while men are congratulated for their sexual enterprises, women are condemned and looked down upon. Hey, it takes two to tango. That whole statistic about 1 in 4 women having STD’s is because MEN are the carriers of these viruses…especially HPV, in which case most strains are undetectable. This statistic seems to insinuate that by having sex at all, women are getting diseases left and right…like the diseases are their punishment for screwing around. However, it completely leaves out the fact that they got it from men. The blame is placed on women for having sex and not on men for having the diseases. If you were to eat at a restaurant and subsequently get food poisoning… then are you to blame, or is the restaurant? The small pleasures that we have in this life are to be indulged in, at least…in moderation. There is no reason why females should have to withhold themselves from experiencing these pleasures. Men do not abstain.
How about this: If I want to marry a man, should he be a virgin? Should he be pure and without diseases? The thing people don’t realize is that this doesn’t exist anymore. People can get sexually transmitted diseases even if they are chaste; there are people who inherit them from their parents and through other non-sexual means.
Women need the opportunity to seek pleasure, as many men do, and not be looked down upon for it.
PLUS, what happens if your new husband is a minute man! HAH…this abstinence thing works great for men who are horrible in bed. What a long wait for nothing! :p
Kelly says: Well, first, allow me to congratulate you on jumping headfirst into EXACTLY what she is writing about, calling people sluts because they aren’t virgins. I’m pretty sure that’s EXACTLY what she means about how the OBSESSION (not the actual VIRGINITY) is hurting people.
As a rape victim (by a “Good Christian Man,” no less), I’m not pleased that my fiancé was not the first to touch me, though within my power he will be the last. Some things can’t be controlled, and we can’t all be perfect little flowers like you.
Take THAT into your self-righteous consideration. Fine for you to raise your daughters that way, but consider, at least momentarily, that some of us weren’t so lucky.
Kelly says: And to clarify, I was raped at knifepoint. It wasn’t about me sleeping with the wrong person, it was about my LIFE, or whatever was left of it. Maybe if the “Good Christians” understood what it was truly like to be in that position, they wouldn’t be so quick to judge. Cast your stones all you will, but I know YOU will not be my ultimate Judge.
Keir says: I thiink that the major problem with the article is that it forgoes the point that sex is neither something cheap or as insanely special as it claims to be. Sex can be fun but when you do do it with the person you love it will become special. but when you do have sex with someone you dont love, then the intimacy is just something for fun.
Seriously this article goes on on how its the “girl’s responsibility” and all that shit. But in truth its also the guy’s responsibility too. And thats what this article isn’t saying. In fact when you do look at it from that stand point you see that we call guys studs (good term) and girls sluts (bad term) when they sleep around. And what the feminist book (that this article seems to be trollin’ on) is basically trying to do is to let girls be equal with men no matter what they do or what us guys do.
And if I (some man from Canada) can see this then how come a woman (with all her good intentions) not see that?
Traitorfish says: I’d ask why the writer felt it necessary to write a rebuttal to a book which he clearly hasn’t read, but the blatant misogyny which drips from every sentence makes it sort of obvious.
aeracura says: This is such a gross misrepresentation of a book, thrown so far out of context it sickens me. I’m not saying I agree with having casual sexual partners, not at all, but you are compleatly denying our species most basic emotions if you will not acknowladge that young adults want to have sex. It is an extreamly hormonal time and it is absolutly normal for your teen to have urges.
No, that does not mean we should promote sleeping with multiple partners, or any partners if that is infact what your religion preaches. Still, teens will always be pressured by their peers, and the best possible thing a parent can do is to educate them, have confidence in them, and realize they are intellegent beings who are capable of making their own choices (no matter what you may think about “slow maturity” ). Im sorry if this offends you, but you CAN NOT controll every minute of your teen’s life, it is a time where they are suppose to excell socialy and learn about who they are as a being seperate from their family, who they want to grow up to be, you can not stunt that.
It has been proven that the fear tactics of abstinence do not work, neither does making your teen feel guilty about their sexual feelings. And infact, women who are uneducated about proper protection -in places where abstinence is strictly taught- pregnancy rates are much higher. I only want young women to be properly educated about their bodies, their feelings, and their sexual health. I do not want teen’s to be “sluts”, I also do not want them to feel guilty, ashamed, and confused about sexual feelings that are absolutly normal.
Think about it, your teen is going to want to work much harder to make you proud when they know you trust them and have confidence in their abilities, than if you instill a terror and shame in them over natural feelings and urges.
Also, anyone who thinks a woman deserves to be raped deserves to go to hell and be tortured for an eternity for that judgment. Isn’t that one of the very basic rules of Christianity? Whom are you to judge? I am not a Christian, but I am intellegent enough to understand that not every woman is as lucky as I to be born surounded by supportive people and a safe enviroment. For you to think you can possibly comprehend the situation of the billions of women on this earth really excentuates how narrow minded and ignorant of the world you must be.
Ryan says: My girl friend and i are waiting and when I’ve talked to girls who haven’t they always say the same thing “i wish i had” so yeah I’d say self loathing is a pretty accurate assumption.
We have been together for 5 and a half years and never had a problem though we do disagree with the whole purity ring thing only because the choice to remain abstinent should remain with the girl/boy and they shouldn’t have to feel dirty or like they let their parents down if they make a mistake because the only people they’re letting down is themselves and God.
ZerXceS says: That is a MAN writing this right? I am a man and I leave women to think whatever they want about women. This guy sounds like a complete ahole. The kind of man that would command a woman to do something he wants with her body. Let people do what they will, darned it all to heckfire.
Maegan says: This is the first time i read your blog, and i think you might be looking at this whole issue a little one sided. I agree that girls should have limits, especially at a young age, but once in their 20’s, i think casual dating and casual sex are just not that big a deal anymore. Why can’t girls have sex with who they want? As soon as they do, people like you label them as “sluts” and “whores” and i think that’s just not fair. I have a feeling you’re gonna use the “sex should be special” and all that bullshit. Says who? God? Please, don’t make me laugh. Sex is sex, an urge that we have and we will always want to fulfill. Who are you to say that it’s bad?
Erica says: It seems to me very simple
AS a woman,
You either agree or disagree
In my eyes, a woman who “agrees” is pretty much denying herself in order to please the men around her. The longer we wait until women can express themselves sexually without being condemned, the longer we will wait to be truly equal. I’m not saying become a porn star or anything, (unless you want to) but if you want to have sex with a person, then you shouldn’t have to worry about what people will say, or call you. Do what you want to do. That’s the definition of freedom, and until women start realize that, we might as well lock ourselves in a prison and give the key to the men so that we could cook, clean, and do all the other things that are “acceptable” according to them.. We are lucky enough to live in a country where we are allowed to express ourselves, SO ENOUGH HIDING! Do whatever it is you want! If you wanna save yourself for marriage, fine. But don’t go judging the rest of us who are more open with our sexuality. Last time i checked it’s a free country.
johhny light stick says: look you liberals are insane yes liberals feminist whatever want your cake and eat it too i have read lots of this page crap one thing sticks out why do 7yr old pledge there virginity to there fathers is that incest ? oh yeah thats right and if they don’t have a father to pledge it to maybe they can pledge there virginity to the pedophile down the block i am sure he would accommodate her as well women of America learn from the Muslims that hate us cover your bodies and behave like women that is how god made you think the bible was printed by evil women hating men well for your sake i pray your right because if not you are going to hell cover your bodies stop teaching your young daughters it is ok to dick tease men it is ok to wait until you are married trust me it is better that way and i do agree that if boys and girls were taught this way there would be less sex crimes and less women beatings think about it when was the last time you herd a JEW getting charged with rape or domestic violence or the same for a Muslim because they follow the morals taught by there religion unlike us lazy Christians and that is why they probably call us infidels if that don’t make sense to you then go to a church that teaches from a bible ask the preacher to explain it to you the only reason you honestly wont do that is because you are afraid of the truth 1christain solder that his daughters don’t roam the streets half nude they cover their bodies
Meg says: I have not read that book, so I don’t know how much she’s advocating promiscuity. I’d just like to say that feminism should be about standing up for what you believe in and who you are. Some women may stay virgins until they’re 30, until they’re married; be proud of your choice. Some girls may choose to have sex early and often; be proud of your sexuality. I personally had sex before marriage, to the man I did marry, and I am quite proud that he is my only man, but I have been with many women and I am proud of my sexuality and experiences too. I don’t think teens should be pressured, ridiculed or punished either way. We know if we’ve made mistakes. If we have, we must learn from them and forgive ourselves. Sex (or lack of) is a part of finding ourselves just as much as school, friends, work and family.
Meg says: Thomas made a comment (113) that I would like to rebuke. I am a stay at home mom and you condemned that as anti feminist. It is a choice as any other. I do not feel that I am borrowing from my hubby. The money he makes is OUR money. I use it freely. Making money for myself would simply go to daycare, so why wouldn’t I choose to be with my sons instead? Now, after 5 years of it, I am choosing to do something else, simply because I want a change and I have made some choices about school in that time. this year, I’m going to school, and I want to go back to work. These are my choices. I felt very belittled when I first decided to stay at home with my kids, because many people see that as a weakness. I am proud of it now, although ready for a change.
Umm_Isa says: As a Muslim woman, I find your perspective refreshing in a world where I find that the “Girls Gone Wild” culture is not only messing up young girls, but it is degrading to women as a whole. I will teach my daughters that sex is a wonderful thing that is for a husband and wife to share, but it is for marriage only. I will teach them to respect their beauty and honour themselves, not by “flaunting it,” but by reserving it for people who will respect and appreciate them for it.
I do not condemn women who choose to have premarital sex. But I will not advocate that to my daughters – or my sons, for that matter. The relationship between a husband and a wife is sacred and sex is a very special thing to be shared between them. I absolutely reject the attitude that many of these “purity ring” people propagate of “My virginity is the most important gift I can give to my husband.” No. It isn’t about not having sex because your virginity is important. It is about not having sex because it is – as I already said – a sacred bond between a husband and a wife.
I am a feminist too. I absolutely believe in equal rights for men and women. I do not believe that feminism necessitates that our daughters sleep with someone before marriage or insist upon not getting married. I cover myself when I go out because I believe I deserve to be judged on something more important than my looks and I deserve the respect not to be called “sweetheart,” or “baby,” by some man who I do not know. THAT is feminism: respect for women.
Joy says: There a a lot of comments on here that I agree with, and many that I disagree with. The main article, however, I disagree with.
I live in the UK where we don’t have any “purity rings” or “purity balls”, but I find the idea horrendous. Surely by our late teens we are intelligent to be able to make the decision over whether or not we are ready to have sex. Being a virgin may be something to be valued, but I think its wrong that some one who may be one of the most considerate and caring people, in a loving long term relationship, would be condemned. Who would be classed as the one with more morals;a volunteering, friendly and kind girl who had sex with someone she loved, or a hostile and arrogant virgin? I’m not saying that this is what everyone who makes these choices are like; but which one would be the better person?
Maybe its just because I live in a well educated area, but I have never come across a modern woman who is an anti-feminist, until reading this article. Why shouldn’t women be equal to men and go against the patriarchal ideals instilled upon us? Sure the Bible tells us “But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” This is one of the main reasons I decided to become an atheist. I was 8 and am in my late teens now.”A girl that young simply does not have the maturity to make that kind of decision on her own! Her parents are supposed to guide her.” Great. Sexism AND ageism.
I just want to finish by saying well done to all the people reading these comments who have waited until marriage before doing it. But well done also to the people who’s morality depends on actually helping other people.
Zach says: i liked the purity myth. i think its ridiculous how people complain about teenage sex like its a horrible thing. teenage sex isn’t bad, teenage STD’s and pregnancy is a bad thing. for those teenagers that are taking ample precautions to prevent pregnancy and STD’s, what’s the harm? in fact, since sex has numerous health benefits, maybe it should be encouraged more often. if adults can have sex, then there’s no reason teenagers shouldn’t be allowed to
Maria says: Whow, you sure need to get laid…
justwtfman says: ok, no one is saying that girls should slut around
this author said “sex with casual acquaintances”
you’re putting the pussy so high up on the pedestal
sex with people who you are familiar with and who you know are clean IS healthy
it burns calories, keeps you happy, and leaves you satisfied
just because you can’t get laid doesn’t mean you should bitch at other people for doing so
Pordgy Castrom says: In all honesty, I think that both accounts are viable, but coming from a neutral angle, I have but a couple of questions to ask. Is the existence of an arbiter of lifestyles right, or is there really a point in telling people whats healthy and whats wrong. Everything is a matter of opinion and so where did any people aquire the authority to rule other peoples lives?
tasha r. says: while i agree with the blog by and large, i do not necessarily agree with the idea that feminists in general are all about “turning young women into raging whores.” it’s important to remember, though, that sex takes two. i believe many feminists, even if not necessarily the author of this book, would argue that the over-emphasis on female purity is what’s damaging. after all, very rarely is male virginity ever addressed. how are std’s spread, after all? it goes from one infected partner to another. if social stigmas on male purity were as prevalent as those about female purity, perhaps std’s wouldn’t spread as much. if society would stop calling girls whores for doing what the male equivalent of a “stud” does, the collective self-esteem of women would be in far better shape.
Corinne says: I agree, I think, that the obsessive stance on chastity in this country is hurting young women.
In Europe, no one really gives a shit if you’re drinking under the age of 21. And guess what? Less of them end up with serious alcohol problems. It’s not seen as this great mysterious thing, that only the magical 21 year olds can so much as possess.
I think if we stop telling our young girls that the moment they open their legs that they’re doomed to hell, less girls will sleep around.
Angharad says: I couldn’t agree more with this post. Have you read “A Return to Modesty” by Wendy Shallot? I found this two years ago and absolutely loved it–it expresses it fun, engaging, extremelely insightful language and research exactly what you have so eloquently written here. Well done!
Michelle says: I am a Christian, 19 year old girl.
I can see both good and bad on both sides…I see what the author is saying: Women should know they are still are people if they lose their virginity. I can also see how there can be an unhealthy obsession with virginity. Like girls who made promises to be vigins, screwed up, and then their parents throw them out and want nothing to do with them? that’s not healthy, and neither is scaring your children by saying sex is bad and so is sexuality.
BUT: I do believe that having parents that talk about sex and explain it and not act like it’s a terrible thing, or scare them with it, is good. i believe that abstinence is the only 100% guarantee that you can be STD free.
ALSO: I am very confused why all you people who are so worried about girls are calling the same girls you are worried about “sluts” and saying they’re “slutting around”… and calling people standing up for their opinions “disgusting and reprehensible”. You won’t win them over by calling them names, but with love.
Michelle says: Oh, and one last thing. I think we should hold the same standards (keeping their legs closed) for guys too. It’s not right to tell girls to keep their legs closed, and then just say “well it’s in guy’s nature to have sex” I have sexual urges, and so does every woman. I think THAT’S the biggest problem today. Teaching girls that girls don’t really think like that, only guys do. Oh, having problems with porn and masturbation? Only guys do that. Girls are taught that they aren’t supposed to have thoughts like that. They keep them inside and wonder why they are the only ones like that. That’s when they screw up and have sex…
Maria says: While I agree that young girls and women shouldn’t be encouraged to sleep around, I really don’t think it has anything to do with you whether they decide to or not. If it is purely their own choice and not something they are pressured in to, then who are you to call them whores and sluts? It is not harming you in anyway. It’s their bodies so just leave them to it. Sex is a natural thing and a need that everyone has. Some people just like it and need it a lot more than others. In my own opinion, as long as people aren’t hurting anyone by doing it, e.g. cheating, breaking up families, abortion after abortion etc, then why put them down for it? Get off your high horse and accept others for the way they are.
In before all the hate comments about me probably being a ‘slut’ myself: I am a virgin, but have many friends who are deemed sluts. They aren’t hurting anybody and it fucks me off when I hear people bad mouth them.
Saw this on reddit. Not sure I understand the insistence that girls remain virgins before marriage.
JustAGirl says: What really bugs me in this article is the way the author uses the word “feminist”. Nowadays, being feminist has a negative subtext; people forget that being a feminist means you want equal rights for women. It does NOT mean that you’re one of those people who think the color pink is discriminating girls.
In spite of articles like these, I am still proud to call myself a feminist.
eddie says: this is disgusting. whoever wrote this article has completely got the wrong end of the stick. Jessica does not want to turn teenage girls into ‘raging whores’ (incidentally calling a girl who has sex a whore or a slut is chauvanistic and degrading. espescially while they are [presumably] have sex with teenage boys whom i notice do not get a mention or a degrading nametag.)Jessica is advocating freedom of choice. she is not saying go out and get picked up by some creep in a bar. She is saying if you feel comfortable fine, it is your choice. and by hooking up she means casual sex with a friend (again not a creep) for pleasures sake and not because they should, and as for the bullshit about 12 year olds making their own decisions and having sex? HELLO?!?! thats fucking illegal!!! so how the hell do you think jessica would possibly be saying that? she is talking about mature adults.
i also find it disturbing that the article is in favour of purity balls. a 12 year old has no concept of sexual relationships so how is it fair for parents to make them sign their virginity away? then if the girls do in later life have sex they are damned, scorned, treated like dirt, and given the good ol’ label of slut leading to insecurities and anxiety. Well done. you’re sick.
this entire article is just trash bigoted against womens’ right to control over their lives and bodies, i have heard it repeated inumerable times by ever kind of lowlife chauvanist. girls who have sex are sluts, women who advocate a womans right to have sex outside marriage are sluts… anyone who does not fit your redneck system is a slut. unless then they’re a boy in which case ‘oh-ho nudge wink just sowing his wild oats eh? chortle’ this disgusts me.
Grow up.
John says: @ Eddie: Um, what’s weird is that you visit a site that clearly doesn’t share your view, and you fail to recognize ANY redeeming qualities the author brings up, if there is any.
I can play the same game. I guess you’re a liberal so anyone who doesn’t agree with you must be close-minded.
Grow up.
John says: Also, for the people who say that abstinence is the rage and purity rings are “in” (I’m looking at you feministing posters) . . . like wtf? That’s a lie. You people are picking a weak ass argument which is a strawman. America’s media is more liberal than conservative, and more and more kids are having sex in high school. Individualism seems pretty darn great on paper, but if we’re SO involved with ourselves we forget about society. Newsflash: the world doesn’t revolve around you and if it America is fucked. Misguided feminism is laughable. Give me a woman who is humble and fights for equal rights, opportunity, and pay.
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