in digesting The One’s speech yesterday at notre dame, i couldn’t help but think that those who are pro-abortion just simply don’t get the argument. how can you find ‘common ground’ on what one side believes is abject murder of the most innocent of life? why must WE be the ones to find common ground about that?
obama at notre dame. the notre dame — and he got standing ‘O’s and hearty applause. he spoke eloquently about reducing abortions and helping women in crisis pregnancies but of course they were just words – no mention of the great violations of the civil rights of the unborn that he himself supported over and over. did you notice in The One’s seduction of notre dame, he never spoke of his own radical position on abortion?
as i listened to him describe his ‘coming to christ’ experience, it was as if his words had almost a desensitizing and wooing effect on the crowd — ‘see, i really am just one of you’.
and we know from experience that The One says all the right words – he sounds just so reasonable. but deaths of unborn children is just never reasonable, which is why the children lost to abortions are never mentioned in his speeches.
one million babies per year. killing innocent unborn children is just that, killing innocent unborn children. no matter how many times The One says it is ‘a private family matter,’ they are still dead.
rush calls it the low art of ‘political seduction’ and what happened at notre dame is the perfect example of the ‘new speak’ — where one, seduced by obama, will actually vote/choose/act against their own values or self interests.
morality it seems, is now immoral in obama’s new speak.
what The One did at notre dame is his new practice in controlling the message, hence controlling the people and it’s bigger then abortion. just like at notre dame, it’s no longer about right or wrong in obamaland because The One isn’t changing his core positions. it is us that must change ours.
Jared says: Where were you all weekend? We want DETAILS.
PenniePan says: I knew this is what your post would be about today. The truth is Kate that you are moping around and whining because you expected the Notre Dame protests to be bedlam resulting in an embarrassment of Barack. When it didn’t happen, in fact he was lauded, you and your rightwing one issue rednecks decided to bring all this up again.
Abortion will never be illegal in this country. Roe v. Wade will never be overturned. I would venture to say that even quite a few of your fellow conservatives have had abortions but were too scared or hypocritical to admit it.
Now face facts that Barack Obama continues to encroach and win over the right wing base in this country and that Republicans in general are an ever shrinking constituency.
It isn’t just women that approve of abortion. Men are the first ones to push their girl friends and wives to get them.
@Kate
Barack Obama is a pragmatist. Our country is becoming that way in that more of us are in the middle on many of the so called hot button issues. It does no good for any of us and the country as a whole to be so polarizing. We need solutions for the masses not for every whim of the religious in this country surely you see that? I recognize it is personal for those on the pro-life side but really you are mocking those of us who would rather make choices for ourselves about our own futures. Isn’t that what conservatives say they believe in the broadest sense anyway?
Abortion and those who support it are immoral. It would be to this country’s honor to make it illegal, but I know those who have heardened their hearts and wish to continue this travesty are evil and will eventually pay, and rightfully so.
Libs march in lock-step, so I expect them to never seriously question anything Dear Leader says. Unfortunately for him, he’s more transparent than his promises.
Jared says: I thought it was actually quite patetic that Alan Keyes still can’t quit Barack Obama. You would think he was jealous of him or something. I thought the president gave a really nice speech and all of a sudden, I am an Irish fan.
Paul says: Barack Obama has had overwhelming support from Catholics since the election. He carried them over McLame by 9%.
http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/001444.htm
That seems to not have resonated with the clueless right in this country. The supposed outrage by catholics was just manufactured as evidenced by his treatment during commencement. He was well liked and respected.
You all always turn a blind eye to capital punishment which is also against church teachings, but that didn’t prevent ND from giving GWB, who presided over 152 executions as gov. of Texas, from receiving an honorary degree.
Your faux outrage is nauseating.
Kray says: The crowd at Notre Dame was so in love with Barack Obama by the end of his speech they were ready to have an abortion right then and there for him. So much for values and deep held beliefs.
Gypsy says: Teach everyone how to avoid pregnancy and you’ll have an unbelievably lower abortion rate!!!!!
Abstinence-only sux!!!!!
Symone says: The side issue here is that the Catholic Church itself is laughable. What makes them think they have any moral leg to stand on these days with so many of their sexual predator/child sex abuser priests accused, arrested, jailed?
I guess they think they will win points and stop the mass exodus of old catholics if they desparately cling to abortion as an issue.
lisab says: point of order madame chairman
“the notre dame” is in paris
Jane says: Hello all (except Micky).
American Catholic online has two very nice articles on President Obama’s speech
written by a father of one of the grads.
http://www.americancatholic.org/news/newslist.aspx
One article is on President Obama’s speech and the other is entitled “Obama at ND: in the footsteps of Father Hesburgh” which draws a parallel between Hesburgh’s civil rights work and Obama’s policies.
I wish the media would have people like this on to represent Catholics and Notre Dame ..instead of that quack Donohoe who speaks for a fringe group …
having Donohue or Buchanan speak for Catholics is like having Alan Keyes speak for blacks.
crypticsound says: The church busybodies and its so called “faithful” need to get their politics out of their preaching and get back to teaching the actual gospels of Christ, which say nothing about abortion.
lisab says: also, neither side seems to understand usa catholics.
as a catholic, years of catholic school talking here, unlike evangelicals, catholics are not very likely to push their beliefs on others through laws. much like my view on gay marriage … i think it should absolutely be legal … but no church should have to recognize it.
sooooooo … while catholics do oppose abortion, as a group, they are less likely to support outright overturning roe vs. wade than say limiting abortion slowly over time. i think you would find lukewarm support among catholics for parental notification for example — but generally catholics would not rally for that.
this is largely because catholics are again very reluctant as a group to impose their views on others through laws. the catholic church has a long history — and much of it has been bad BECAUSE of trying to impose theological views via government.
the gop would do much better with catholics if they incrementaly addressed abortion … slowly … reasonably … while INCREASING the gop’s support for helping the poor, helping the elderly, helping developing countries.
the catholic church as a whole will not go to war on abortion unless obama forces them to … by overturning the conscience clause for example. then they would have no choice because something like 20% of all health care in the usa is from catholic hospitals, clinics, nursing homes, teen shelters etc.
lisab says: the catholic church will always oppose abortion.
they will always teach against it.
but … unless you are a catholic and have an abortion … they are reluctant to get involved.
actually some of the most ardent anti-catholics i know are former catholics who got booted because they had an abortion. within the catholic church there is really NO LEEWAY. you have an abortion you are out … excommunicated automatically with basically no appeal.
but if you are not catholic … they will not get involved much.
lisab says: of course — individual catholics —
often get involved in pro-life rallies and such.
however, the idea that the vatican would uninvite obama … (who is not catholic and is a head of state) … that is pretty far-fetched.
so long as obama does not overturn the conscience clause the vatican will treat him with respect as a head of state.
I just find it fascinating that a college that is considered a religious body, like Notre Dame, would invite someone to speak who has supported infanticide in late-term abortions.
Regardless of whether Catholics will take their views to the extent of legislation is meaningless in this debate. The fact is a Catholic college invited someone who authorized the murder of babies to speak at their commencement.
I daresay this isn’t just a Catholic issue, it’s a Christian issue. It’s a shame when an institution that prides itself on its religious profile would fall prey to the cult of personality that is Obama – and invite someone who throws into their faces their belief in the sanctity of life.
So Obama wants people on both sides of the abortion issue to try to see the other side. Not sure how someone who values the life of all humans can see how allowing babies to die is a valid opinion.
Pennie said: … you and your rightwing one issue rednecks decided to bring all this up again.
Um – it is your precious “Barack” (since when did it become OK to refer to the President of the United States by his first name?) who spoke about the abortion issue in his commencement address. I can’t think of a more inappropriate venue to be so “one issue”.
crypticsound says: Wait a minute. The bulk of the protesters weren’t Notre Dame students or alumni. They were the same rabid anti-abortion activists that we always see…the ones who cry shame with a wink and a nod when a clinic gets bombed or a doctor gets killed. They are the true hypocrites.
PenniePan says: Crypticsound
A few hundred protesters lead by that crank Donahue, or Pat the nazi Buchannan, or Randall Terry or even Alan Keyes hardly qualifies as significant. This is the lunatic fringe.
Millions of innocent Iraqis have died or suffered horribly because of the actions of the Bush administration. This includes the persecution of one of the oldest Christian communities.
Bush ordered torture, a gratuitous invasion, and encouraged violence throughout the Middle East.
These protesters were insignificant in number and hypocrites to everything they claim to stand for. Just abunch of catholic teabaggers.
PenniePan says: Kris “I just find it fascinating that a college that is considered a religious body, like Notre Dame, would invite someone to speak who has supported infanticide in late-term abortions.”
Do your homework. ND has a long history of inviting people they do not morally agree with to not only speak but to confer degrees upon. Look at Shrub getting a degree and he was King of the Death Penalty in TX!
Many of us refer to him as Barack because we feel so connected to him. Like he is our family or our mentor. I am sure that’s something you right wingers could never understand.
Micky says: ” knew this is what your post would be about today. The truth is Kate that you are moping around and whining because you expected the Notre Dame protests to be bedlam resulting in an embarrassment of Barack. ”
I doubt you’d know the truth if it was right in front of you.
Much like you, I’ll suspect I also know what the truth is and probably stand a much better chance of being right because I’m not coming from a base of hate.
Kate, probably much like myself was more worried about the future of millions of babies much more than shes worried about whether Obama stands any chance of being embarassed, which he seems to accomplish well enough on his own anyway.
Sure, I wont lie and say that I dont enjoy watching this president, an offshoot b*tch of evil, be embarassed, but my pain for those babies lives that are basically headed for dumpsters far superceeds my desire to see the one embarassed.
“Now face facts that Barack Obama continues to encroach and win over the right wing base in this country and that Republicans in general are an ever shrinking constituency”
Facts ?
Is that why the popular vote was roughly 52/48 ?
Actually, its turning the other way since just recently for the first time in decades (PAY ATTENTION JANE) according to Gallup the majority of Americans are pro life in addition to the fact that most Americans (lib or con) would vote a republican congress into office if they could.
You dont really expect us to believe that the example your party is setting lately is drawing more to your side ?
ROTF
Hes a hypocrit.
Heres some quotes from his speech yesterday.
“Your generation must decide how to save God’s creation from a changing climate that threatens to destroy it. ”
You mean like, abortions ?
“Those who speak out against stem cell research may be rooted in an admirable conviction about the sacredness of life, but so are the parents of a child with juvenile diabetes who are convinced that their son’s or daughter’s hardships can be relieved.”
Yet he failed to outline the difference between adult and fetal stem cells.
“After I read the doctor’s letter, I wrote back to him and I thanked him. And I didn’t change my underlying position, but I did tell my staff to change the words on my website”
His underlying position still remains that its okay to terminate pregancies at any point during the 9 months.
As Kate said, Its all about words, Obama also said the same himself.
lisab says: actually it was more like 53% to 46%
but you are correct, it was no reagan-like landslide
Micky says: “Do your homework. ND has a long history of inviting people they do not morally agree with ”
That makes it okay ?
I’m with Kris, regardless of what the history is I still find it fascinating how the hypocrisy is practically worn on their sleeves as some badge of honor.
It truly is remarkable.
But then the Catholic faith has always seemed to one of expedience and convenience anyway.
You can do just about anything you want as long as you ask for forgiveness.
Tomorrow, go do the same thing all over and fix it all with a little confession and a few hail Mary’s
lisab says: well, first obama is NOT a catholic.
second, the church made its views on abortion clear, but since he is not catholic, there is little they can do.
third, they are trying to keep obama from overturning the “conscience clause”.
and yes to some extent it is expedience. the catholic church has a long history of interfering in politics, and almost all of it has been bad … going back to the crusades. i was on a church council and the general rule is to not get too involved with evangelical churches because they are too radical. “loopy” i think was the term the priest used 🙂
(i made the loopy comment up — he did not say loopy — that was a joke)
lisab says: “You can do just about anything you want as long as you ask for forgiveness.
Tomorrow, go do the same thing all over and fix it all with a little confession and a few hail Mary’s”
actually that is not true.
first, having an abortion — and probably aiding in an abortion, e.g. paying for your girlfriend to have one, carries with it automatic excommunication in almost 100% of cases.
second, if you did the same bad thing over and over … the priest would say you are fooling yourself and tell you you were not forgiven. that is why they have confession, so that you don’t just forgive yourself of every bad thing you have done every time you do it.
Jilly says: “You can do just about anything you want as long as you ask for forgiveness.
Tomorrow, go do the same thing all over and fix it all with a little confession and a few hail Mary’s”
You Micky are obviously not Catholic because that is NOT true. Don’t mock my faith please.
lisab says: Jilly,
i have noticed a lot of non-Catholics think that though
Marsha says: That is an amazing video.
Pennie “Millions of innocent Iraqis have died or suffered horribly because of the actions of the Bush administration. This includes the persecution of one of the oldest Christian communities.”
And your point is? Please tell me you are not equating this with abortion.
Micky btw you can’t just say a few hail Mary’s and ask for forgiveness after an abortion.
Lee says: “What The One did at Notre Dame is his new practice in controlling the message, hence controlling the people and it’s bigger then abortion.”
WTF? You make everything here sound so Orwellian. Now do you think Obama hypnotizes people into not living their values? Does he have the same power to make people do what he wants like rob banks or have abortions? That is basically what you are saying. Does Obama have superpowers?
Your paranoia is growing.
Ken says: “And your point is? Please tell me you are not equating this with abortion.”
Don’t you see Marsha? That’s all they can do. Everything somehow has to be tied back with Bush, that’s all they know. They’re quite pathetic.
“Your paranoia is growing.”
That’s nothing Lee, take a look at the left for the past 8 years under Bush if you want to see the very definition of paranoia.
Obama is not the least bit interested in finding common ground. Common ground to this ego-maniac is “Think like me or else.” He’s really quite sad.
Ken says: I’m not complaining though. Obama’s true colors are showing and the people aren’t liking what they are seeing.
Republicans pull even with dems on party affiliation:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/15370/Party-Affiliation.aspx
Not bad, guys. The Republicans were supposed to be extinct, but thanks to Obama we’re making a comeback in just over 100 days. Keep it up, dems!!!
PenniePan says: Ken it appears your glee is a bit premature:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/118528/GOP-Losses-Span-Nearly-Demographic-Groups.aspx
from the article (should Micky go postal):
“The decline in Republican Party affiliation among Americans in recent years is well documented, but a Gallup analysis now shows that this movement away from the GOP has occurred among nearly every major demographic subgroup. Since the first year of George W. Bush’s presidency in 2001, the Republican Party has maintained its support only among frequent churchgoers, with conservatives and senior citizens showing minimal decline.”
“So far in 2009, aggregated Gallup Poll data show the divide on leaned party identification is 53% Democratic and 39% Republican — a marked change from 2001, when the parties were evenly matched, according to an average of all of that year’s Gallup Polls. That represents a loss of five points for the Republicans and a gain of eight points for the Democrats.”
“As was shown earlier, the GOP’s loss in leaned support over this time is evident among nearly every subgroup. The losses are substantial among college graduates, which have shown a decline in GOP support of 10 points. (The losses are even greater — 13 points — among the subset of college graduates with postgraduate educations.) This may reflect in part Barack Obama’s strong appeal to educated voters, a major component of his winning coalitions in both the Democratic primaries and the general election.”
“In turn, the GOP has generally avoided significant losses among only its most loyal groups, including frequent churchgoers and self-identified conservatives. The Republican Party maintains majority support among these two groups…”
So it’s just you Ken the Cop, Kate, and a few of you poor souls here and then of course a smattering across the blogosphere. You talk a good game though. LMAO.
Ken says: Oh, there’s no doubt that there’s been a move away from the GOP, I didn’t need a Gallup poll to tell me that. The poll I referenced shows, however, that the dems aren’t getting those people. In case you didn’t read the poll, and judging by your post you didn’t, it shows that Republicans are EVEN with the dems as far as party affiliation. If you look at the previous dates you will see that the dems held quite a lead, but not this time. Why is that?
I do hope your job at McDonalds is secure Pennie, you seem to have difficulty at grasping simple political arguments.
lisab says: LOL …
i just saw the same article just posted on another site … i guess the dem talking points just got sent out 🙂
BTW, the latest phrase I’m seeing to ID the cult followers of Dear Leader is to call them “Teenbeat Obama Cheerleaders” or you’ll see the reference of “Teenbeat Obama.” Sorta fitting, except they aren’t that bright.
.
Micky says: “You Micky are obviously not Catholic because that is NOT true. Don’t mock my faith please.”
I dont have to eat McDonalds to know whats on the menu dear, plus, I’ve tasted it all already and its all a bunch of self gratifying intake with no purpose other than to make you feel good that holds no nutritional value, as catholicism holds little spiritual value.
“Micky btw you can’t just say a few hail Mary’s and ask for forgiveness after an abortion.”
I agreee that you shouldnt be able to but “cant” doesnt mean it doesnt happen.
That doesnt mean that the majority of Catholics I grew up knowing didnt believe so.
my fathers best friend was a Catholic who’d been absolved of the sin of being DUI and killing a man.
But hey, dont you Catholics think I’m singling you out here.
Lifes been better for me and everyone I know who did away with any form of organized religion.
lisab says: “my fathers best friend was a Catholic who’d been absolved of the sin of being DUI and killing a man.”
well, you could be absolved of killing a man in a DUI far easier under Catholic rules than for having an abortion.
in a DUI you are responsible for a death, but you did not intend to murder anyone.
in an abortion you intend to kill a baby. abortion is one of the things you are specifically prohibited from doing in the catholic church. the punishment it carries is automatic excommunication, i.e. you are automatically kicked out and also not forgiven, specifically it is this rule
Canon 1398: “A person who procures a completed abortion incurs a latae sententiae excommunication.”
in other words … buy lots of sunscreen
lisab says: under catholic rules, intention is basically the most important thing.
if you kill a man in self defense — that is not evil
if you kill a man because you do not like them — that is evil
a DUI would be in between.
PenniePan says: Ken of course I read your link dear. My point was that the GOP has LOST a severe # of people who use to call themselves Republican. And my link DID explain that Barack got all of the former Republicans with the last election. Now wake up Ken. You’re generally smarter then that.
Micky says: My point was that the GOP has LOST a severe # of people who use to call themselves Republican”
But still as a conservative force we are not dwindling, as much as you’d like to dream that we are.
The GOP and republicanism are two very different things that you seem to generalize as all of one entity.
Did you miss the part where Gallup polled for the first time in decades that 51 % of Americans now “do not” favor abortion ? Would that be a conservative viewpoint progressed into society ?
Did you miss the part where registered dems and repubs in the last election was almost spilt down the middle ? With an error margin of 3% it would show that the split is not as great as you’re dreaming it is.
Did you miss the part where most Americans would do away with the democratic congress we have ?
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/congress_comes_in_dead_last_in_voter_trust
Did you miss the part where conservatives lead in the generic congressional ballots for the first time in a decade ?
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_America/congressional_ballot/generic_congressional_ballot
Did you miss the part where voters put democrats, GOP in a dead heat over the economy ?
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_America/trust_on_issues/trust_on_issues
Because people vote or register republican on a ballot is not 100% indicative of their political ideology
We have not lost a “SEVERE” amount of anything but patience in watching the dems implode all over themselves like a bunch of keystone cops in the last 90 days.
I cant wait for you guys next trick, it gets better everyday
Ken says: Yes, Pennie, everybody knows that. That’s not something that has been in dispute with even Republicans acknowledging that. Do you need a gallup poll to tell you that water is wet?
In the last few YEARS the Republicans have seen waning support, before anyone ever heard of Barack Obama (Happy days!). The poll I referenced shows that as of today as many people are identifying themselves as Republicans as they are democrats.
Get it or should I type slower?
Micky says: Ken.
The point that libs dont want to accept is the people are not moving towards a more radical leftist point of view. Quite the contrary actually.
Since day one of Obamas inauguration support for democratic (socialist) policies and ideals is whats been diminishing. People want less spending and less government. Period.
More and more people are identifying themselves with core conservative principles which the GOP had long abandoned in favor of a slightly left of center position which by comparison to the far left position of Obamanites makes anything look conservative.
These guys dont get it. In order to get it they need to look back on what the core principles were for each party decades ago when it wasnt so much the goals that were different as it was the manner in which each party sought to achieve them.
To people like Pennie its all about sport where the players are black and white with no variations to any grey matter.
If she cant concieve or take into consideration the many different brands of democrats and republicans out there and the core principles that stand behind each party she’ll never get it.
lisab says: well … think ahead a year to the 2010 election or three years to the 2012 election. the economy will likely still be sluggish, with potentially higher inflation, high gas prices, higher interest rates and more fortune 500 failures …
the dems will be offering “more unemployment benefits, government bailouts, more welfare, freedom from foreclosures, free cable tv and access to the internet” all paid for “by the rich”
the gop will be offering — “go find a job”
which is a more appealing message
lisab says: reps 2012 motto: “don’t be a welfare slop, go find a job”
dems 2012 motto: “kill the unborn and we will give you free porn”
Paul says: Micky “We have not lost a “SEVERE” amount of anything …”
Yes you did you condescending buffoon. Read the link that Pennie gave. It says R’s have dipped down to something like 32% with D’s being about 51% of the country. In 2001 the D’s & R’s were equal. Less R’s because they can’t stomach the party anymore. GEEEZ.
Micky says: Paul.
Do you not know the difference between a conservative and a republican these days ?
When you do learn the difference you can continue with your name calling.
Did you read my links describing the political ideoology the country is beggining to lean towards ?
And if you’d really laike to argue the point I suggest you refute the numbers of registered republicans in the last election. I’ll take that reliability over any poll any day.
I read pennies link and still what you and her dont uderstand is that even though people have moved from the GOP that doesnt mean that less people define themselves as “CONSERVATIVE” in their views which is why I supplied the links I did. As a matter of fact LESS people are identifying with the policies and practices of the left since Obamas inauguration.
The problem is that most of the countrys conservtives dont feel the GOP any longer represents their beliefs.
But there are no “SEVERE” losses anywhere except whithin that stupid title you keep harping on called “republican”
GOT IT ???
Jeez.
——————–
Lisab.
We have to remember that the DUI, the abortion and deaths resulting from both are both results of neglegence.
My decision to sober up was partially due to my concern for the safety of others as we should have 12 step programs for liberal skanks who cant keep their leggs crossed or take the time to invest in prevention.
I know liberals are questionable in the ethics dept but I’m willing to bet that not too many of them set out with the single intention of killing a baby.
Paul says: Mickey you need a comprehension class buddy.
“Do you not know the difference between a conservative and a republican these days ?”
Of course I do. But the survey and poll result was based on R’s and D’s get it? I guess you invalidate any poll that doesn’t agree with your points is that the way it is? As far as namecalling? You do a pretty good job of that yourself.
“liberal skanks”
Hey but whatever. You aren’t interested in debate. You just want to win even if that means ignoring or rewriting truth.
Micky says: Paul.
First, I never addressed you or anyone on this blog directly in any derogatory manner, did I ?
Or will my past give you an excuse to continue your bullsh*t every chance you get ?
Wise up. I was refering to those “skanks” that indeed are selfish and negligent. Wouldnt you agree that its pretty skanky to just go around getting knocked up and having constant abortions ? Or do you have a better name for these women ?
Secondly.
The number of registered republicans in the last election was 48%.
These results are that of whats taken directly off the ballot and not polls that are subjected to a variation of discrepencies that can come with Rasmussen or Gallup.
Gallup by the way does back my claim in that more people today (51%) are identifying with the core conservative belief that abortion is wrong as do the rest of my links that the country is not embracing what your leader and party is doing.
Since that seems to be the case I hardly see how you assert so confidently that the dem party is gaining members.
Your base is mad at the one, your far left is mad at the one and ther majority of the country would replace the congress as it is with a republican one.
I hardly see that as dems taking on members.
Dream on, you guys aint all you think you are and we conservatives, libertarians and republicans are out there buddy, dont worry. Were just not all dressed up like a freaking pink three ring circus hollering our brains out
Paul says: Micky wise up.
“The number of registered republicans in the last election was 48%.
These results are that of whats taken directly off the ballot and not polls that are subjected to a variation of discrepencies that can come with Rasmussen or Gallup.”
YOU are WRONG. We aren’t talking about the election noob. We were talking about the polls and those who say they are R’s or D’s TODAY! Geez anybody can find any stat to bolster their claims. Try to stay on task will ya? If you can’t, go sleep it off.
lisab says: “We have to remember that the DUI, the abortion and deaths resulting from both are both results of neglegence.”
first, let me say if i have not said it before, good for you for sobering up
however an abortion and a death by a DUI are not really the same level of evil.
you can drink and drive and not kill someone. you have an increased risk of killing someone, but it is not 100%. also, you could be impaired and not even realize it. certainly there is no intention to kill someone. there may not even be a realization that there is a high chance of killing someone.
vs abortion where,
a woman basically never HAS TO kill her baby but rather CHOOSES TO KILL HER BABY. i am sure there are wierd circumstances where a baby has survived an abortion, but for practical purposes it is a 100% death warrant and in any case the intention is to kill the baby — success is not really the issue, as i said in the catholic church it is intention that counts.
sooooo yes, a woman is probably negligent if she gets pregnant, but … a woman is not excommunicated for getting pregnant. she is excommunicated for KILLING her baby.
lisab says: let me put it this way …
you could potentially be convicted of first degree murder and possibly not be excommunicated. if it was in the heat of the moment, you lose your temper and shoot someone … you might get life in prison, but the catholic church could let you off if they believe you were temporarily insane, or on drugs at the time or something like that.
if you have an abortion, you are automatically excommunicated. you really cannot go with “heat of the moment” when you have to make a doctors appointment and it takes a few days.
Micky says: Still, I could make the choice to drink and drive and be just as liable as a woman who chose to screw and kill the offspring.
Women who get pregnant in the heat of the moment could just as well be temporarily insane or high.
Both situations arise from complacent ignorance and lack of accountability.
I understand what your saying but the fact remains that if your aware of what consequences your actions can bring and you do nothing to prevent it in the face of warnings theres little difference, especially for repeat offenders
lisab says: yes, you can get pregnant i suppose in the heat of the moment …
but you cannot really have an abortion in the heat of the moment
Micky says: ” We aren’t talking about the election noob. We were talking about the polls and those who say they are R’s or D’s TODAY! ”
Yeah, so ? Is that what you guys are all lit up and excited about ? You actually think in the last 90 days your party is gaining something ? Or we have lost something simply because a title was abandoned ?
What people say and how they vote has usually been a very different story, right ?
Paul.
I’m the one with 15 years of sobriety so you might want look into your pie in the sky addiction.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html
If you actually think that if the election were held today only 32% would turn out as registered republicans you probably own a few bridges by now.
What do you think the others would be that are not necessarily republicans but would still have to register as republicans ?
And what results would be more reliable, the election results themselves or polls that are subjected to bias ?
If you’re going to stand by the assertion that since the election the number of registerd republicans has dropped and it makes you happy then by all means soak it up. It wont change the facts I supplied that indicate the country does not like the direction the one has us headed in, the majority of American would vote in a republican congress and since the topic is abortion lets “STAY ON TASK” and remember that for the first time in decades 51% of the country does not favor abortion.
Just because you can find only 32% that identify with the GOP as republicans does not mean that only 32% would turn out to vote on a republican ticket.
Wise up.
Micky says: “but you cannot really have an abortion in the heat of the moment”
Oh yes you can, many are done without much thought put into them.
I’ve known a couple women who raced to the clinic and couldnt get it done soon enough, it was a very spontaneous decision
lisab says: unless you catch the unborn baby sleeping with another woman and you can drive to a clinic and have an abortion in the time it takes to pick up a gun and shoot someone … you do not get consideration.
“the heat of the moment” is not 2 hours or even 15 minutes, maybe 15 seconds.
but … if you were completely out of your mind, meaning really psychotic, the church teaches you are not responsible for your actions, or at least less responsible.
however, that is 1 in a million. unlike in the usa courts, you cannot plead insanity and get off if you lie well. if you lie during confession … you are not forgiven.
lisab says: unless you catch the unborn baby sleeping with another woman and you can drive to a clinic and have an abortion in the time it takes to pick up a gun and shoot someone … you do not get consideration.
“the heat of the moment” is not 2 hours or even 15 minutes, maybe 15 seconds.
but … if you were completely out of your mind, meaning really psychotic, the church teaches you are not responsible for your actions, or at least less responsible.
however, that is 1 in a million. unlike in the usa courts, you cannot plead insanity and get off if you lie well. if you lie during confession … you are not forgiven.
lisab says: unless you catch the unborn baby sleeping with another woman and you can drive to a clinic and have an abortion in the time it takes to pick up a gun and shoot someone … you do not get consideration.
“the heat of the moment” is not 2 hours or even 15 minutes, maybe 15 seconds.
but … if you were completely out of your mind, meaning really psychotic, the church teaches you are not responsible for your actions, or at least less responsible.
however, that is 1 in a million. unlike in the usa courts, you cannot plead insanity and get off if you lie well. if you lie during confession … you are not forgiven.
lisab says: unless you catch the unborn baby sleeping with another woman and you can drive to a clinic and have an abortion in the time it takes to pick up a gun and shoot someone … you do not get consideration.
“the heat of the moment” is not 2 hours or even 15 minutes, maybe 15 seconds.
but … if you were completely out of your mind, meaning really psychotic, the church teaches you are not responsible for your actions, or at least less responsible.
however, that is 1 in a million. unlike in the usa courts, you cannot plead insanity and get off if you lie well. if you lie during confession … you are not forgiven.
lisab says: sorry about the repeats …
Pennie: I suggest that you do your homework. In his 5 years as Governor of Texas, George W. Bush authorized the execution of 131 people, an average of 26 per year. However, since 2004, records show that nearly twice that many have been executed per year in TX (59 in 2004, 60 in 2005, 53 in 2006, etc…). I would hardly say that qualifies him as “King of the Death Penalty”.
Be that as it may – I stand by what I said. For a school to align itself with a specific religion, then repeatedly invite speakers who are the antethesis to that religion’s beliefs – is hypocrisy.
Oh yeah and about Barack. You may feel close to him, identify with him and get all tingly when you think about him. But there are those of us who felt like we identified with former President Bush. Therefore, since we tolerate you referring to Obama by his first name, the least you could do is accord our host the same respect and refer to the former President as Bush; hell I’d even take Dubya over some of the other slurs. Respect the office even if you can’t respect the man.
Paul says: “Just because you can find only 32% that identify with the GOP as republicans does not mean that only 32% would turn out to vote on a republican ticket.”
Again you miss the point of my original comment which seems to be what you are all about anyway. Go ahead and believe whatever you want. Dealing with someone like you who operates on impaired brain cells isn’t my thing. Just know that you think that isn’t significant? If the election was held today, we’d still win. It’s significant.
Micky says: Paul.
Trust me Einstien, your point and your one dimesional thought process is not that hard to fathom, I get it.
I’ve been reading the exchange between pennie and ken also where its pointed out, as I did also, that the dems aren’t getting those people.
Pennie;
“Republicans in general are an ever shrinking constituency.”
As its been discussed and acknowledged I’m not disagreeing with this either.
What you seem to NOT want to accept is that there is a force far greater than “JUST REPUBLICANS” for you to worry about.
Sooooooooooooooooooo, you can bang on your drum all you want ranting and raving about how the republicans are a shrinking constituency (if it makes you feel good) that still does not mean that if the election were held today the results would be much different in your favor and if anything there is much more data to suggest that the liberal/democratic turnout would be less and those supporting conservative policies would be greater. DO- YOU- UNDERSTAND- THAT ?
Listen up.
You’ve got one stinking poll reflecting on one simple issue.
Ken and I have given and listed at least 4 examples of how the country is moving to the right.
Now whos the one whos in lal la land choosing only to believe what he wants ? HUH ?
“If the election was held today, we’d still win. It’s significant.”
Whats significant ? Your one stinking little poll ?
It still doesnt ask or mention how many of those that are conservatives or libertarians that would still register to vote as a republican.
I’ll ask you again, do you really believe that 52% of the country would turn out to vote dem and only 32% republican ?
Are you f*ckin serious ? You really believe that ?
Are you and Pennie actually excited at the prospect that in the near future there will be no more conservatives or republicans ?
Shine on you crazy diamond
Micky says: Still Lisab, there are women that when they discover they’re pregnant never exit the mindset that took them 2 seconds to get in to that they must have that abortion NOW.
Many murders are commited the same way.
At this very moment someone could pi$$ me off so bad that in an instant I can decide that I want that someone dead and never leave that frame of mind until my goal is achieved. People do it all the time.
Ya know, like driving across the country wearing diapers letting nothing impare the objective ?
Out of selfishness, neglect and greed many have been murdered by gun or abortion. many people have backed themselves into corner where thewy thinbk murder is their only way out
PenniePan says: “Still Lisab, there are women that when they discover they’re pregnant never exit the mindset that took them 2 seconds to get in to that they must have that abortion NOW.”
Oh for the love of God!!!!!!!!!!!!
Micky and you know this HOW????? Don’t speak for women!!!!!!!!! You know nothing about it. You of all people are the most abusive to women on this blog.
Micky says: Sorry, accidentaly hit submit in my hectic efforts to correct the “thewy thinbk “.
Should say “they think”
PenniePan says: Kris
I was referring to the issue that GWB spoke a number of times at ND and he was known for his DP killings. I am quite certain that the DP #’s have increased in TX. Death begets death. I have no argue with you on that.
However: I consider Shrub one level below a war criminal for all he did to this country and to Iraq. I have no respect for him or Darth. I want to see them frog marched on CNN during prime time television and they can haul Pelosi out too because she seems complicit as well. I do not call him President. I have notice Kate does not call Barack Presidetnt. Only “obama” and “The One” and she certainly means it disrestpectfully. Please don’t lecture me on who I may respect. I love Barack. I think he will do great things for this country and I know he will never do what GWB did. In the horrible event that I was wrong (which I am not), and he does something on the magnatude that Shrub did, I have no problem disrespecting him as well. Is that fair enough?
Micky says: “Micky and you know this HOW????? Don’t speak for women!!!!!!!!! You know nothing about it. You of all people are the most abusive to women on this blog.”
Pennie, ya know what ?
Please, for once, try to get a grip and think before you open your yap.
I’m 51 years old and have had my share of relationships that werent the kind I’d like to brag about and have seen many women do just what I’m saying they do.
You and your idiotic repugnant liberals seem to think that this issue is all about women.’
Well ya know what ya self centered selfish wenchs?
ITS NOT ???????????????????????????????????
I’ve had two women in my life whom when they found out they were pregnant with my child took it upon themselves to run to the abortion clinic as fast as they F*CKING COULD without telling me anything at all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It screwed my life up BIG TIME !!!!
Now, before you sound any more ridiculous than you already do.
DONT SPEAK FOR ME ABOUT WHAT I KNOW AND WHAT I DONT !!!!
And by the way, I work with addicts and alcoholics, they greatest violators of women that there is and do more in one day to keep women safe than you have in your whole life !
Micky says: ” I have no problem disrespecting him as well. Is that fair enough”
The only problem is that you have no proof to base your assertions or allegations.
Just an opinion.
Pennie said: I was referring to the issue that GWB spoke a number of times at ND and he was known for his DP killings.
And Obama is known for voting to kill babies that are born alive as a result of late term abortions.
Doesn’t matter. ND is inviting speakers who are the polar opposite to just about everything the Catholic Church holds dear. Bush. Obama. Anyone else like them. The officials at ND are hypocrits.
I consider Shrub one level below a war criminal for all he did to this country and to Iraq. I have no respect for him or Darth.
How typical of your ideology. It’s totally OK for you to completely disrespect someone that others “in the same room” respect. Yet we are not allowed to disrespect Obama if we want to.
I’m quite sure that I could come up with some real off-the-hook nicknames for Obama. (You do amuse me, I must confess – referring to someone by their last name is a sign of disprespect…).
And yet – I won’t do that. Because much as I may disagree with his policies, in the end I do respect him for the office he holds.
And that is the difference between liberals and conservatives, at it’s very basic point. Conservatives can find respect in spite of their beliefs; Liberals can only dump on anything that doesn’t toe their line.
kris you said
‘I’m quite sure that I could come up with some real off-the-hook nicknames for Obama. (You do amuse me, I must confess – referring to someone by their last name is a sign of disprespect…). And yet – I won’t do that.’
you could always slip them to me and i will use them. 😉
Kate – much as I’d love to take you up on that offer, I seriously won’t do it. Reducing discourse to the level of Pennie and her ilk is just not what I’m about. And that’s not to say that you are either – the MSM annointed Obama as “The One”…so I guess she’s saying the MSM has been disrespectful of Obama from day one.
Not.
PenniePan says: BWAHAHAHAHAHAH! Nice smackdown of the blog mistress!
lisab says: actually, i think the smackdown was on you … read it again
Micky says: True, but sad.
Hey ! I’ll draw some cartoons !
Pennie – can you actually read all the words, or do you just pick out the ones that appeal to you the most.
The smackdown above was on you. But you can’t see yourself in that because you think what you believe in exempts you from understanding how base and course you really are.
pennie let me clear the cobwebs… i was teasing kris and kris knew it. her response was for your eyes.
integrity and honor has a different definition in penniepan-land.
the truth is i am quite restrained in my treatment of The One — restrained because it is burned in my memory the way president bush who i love and vp cheney who i love (and their families who i love) were treated for 8 years by you and all those like you.
if you believe anything i might say, believe this: as much as i want to, i use restraint in the way i conduct myself here on this blog.
I believe it was Ronald Reagan who said abortion is advocated only by persons who have themselves been born. Think about it.
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